Walking Through the Echoes of World War I | Briana Gervat

Sometimes grief sends us searching, sometimes it sends us running, and sometimes it sends us walking towards a place we've never been for reasons we don't fully understand. Today's guest followed the pole 500 miles across the Western front of the Great War. Yes, that's what I said. What she found there wasn't just history.It was healing. It was identity. It was the quiet truth that grief doesn't end, it transforms.This is an amazing journey that would teach you a few new things about grief, healing and moving forward in life in a positive way. Stay tuned. I'm your host, Michael Hirsch. Welcome to one more thing before you go. Today's guest is Brianna Gervast.She's the author of There Will Come Soft Rains, a memoir, Born from a Pilgrimage. Say that in English twice. Pilgrimage across the Western Front.After the loss of her father, she walked through France and Belgium, through the battlefield cemeteries, villages in silence, searching for meaning, connection, and a way to carry her grief forward. Her stories are raw, reflective and deeply human story, and I'm grateful and honored to say it.

Thank you so much for having me. But before we go on, I didn't lose my father, lost my best friend when I was a young child.So my father, thank goodness, is still here. So. But there's still beef still.

Make sure that that gets squared away. I don't know where I get father from.

Oh, we were just talking about my nephews and their father, so.

I always like to start at the beginning of the show. So first of all, welcome.I appreciate you coming on the show and I appreciate you sharing your experiences and your journey. Amazing journey, I might add. But I kind of like start at the beginning. Where'd you grow up and what was your family like?

So I grew up on Long island in New York, about an hour outside of New York City. And I spent most of my childhood in the woods or in the water. So, so I had a big, I have a big Italian family and a big Polish family.So I grew up with my whole family around all the time. And most weekends was spent either outside or with my family or sometimes between the two.So I still, you know, I, I, as much as I moved out of New York, in and out of New York, I've always come back because of my family and because of the environment in which I grew up and how much it impacted my life, I can.

Appreciate that we have something in common. I grew up with an Italian family, too. It's cool.

I could tell. I could tell. You did.

Look, stories, family, food, all that encompasses things at the dinner table. And I love that.And I miss that sometimes because everybody gathering at the table at once and everybody sharing their stuff, sharing the food, sharing the talk. This is cool. Is this how you become a storyteller?

I think it had a huge impact on those stories that I've told and everything. And then my mother would always. And my father as well, would always give me books.So it was like the stories, the animated stories in my Italian family with food around the table, and then the stories of the quiet times, of the books that I would read. So I think that it was just.It was layer upon layer of learning stories, hearing stories, and then reading stories that really contributed to the way that my view of the world, how it evolved.

I got. I've got a book. I got a. When we get done, remind me, please. I've got a book that I've got to share with you.If a guy had on the show, actually a couple different times of his Italian family who came and they call it Ravioli Hill, they bought all the houses up on top of this hill in this neighborhood when they immigrated here. And it's a brilliant story. I got to share the review.

I love that. I love that. Ravioli Hill. That's amazing. Raviolis. We love raviolis in my family.

So take me to the moment you knew you had to. Had to walk the Western Front. I mean, why. Why the Western Front? And kind of what was happening when you. When you thought, I, I gotta walk this.

I. You know, I. I tell the story often that it was after midnight, like, right at the. You know, as Covid was starting to loosen up, when the.When the restrictions on Covid were loosening up a little bit. And I had been. You know, I've been reading so many books, especially since we were on lockdown and everything else like that.And I was chomping at the bit to trav. And then I learned about something called the Western Front Way, which is a path of peace. That is. That was. That was.It was a route that was taken that followed the old front lines of the. Of World War I. And when I learned about it, there wasn't a doubt in my head. I just. I learned about it, and I thought, I have to do this. It was like.It was like. It called to me in the middle of the night, and I had to listen because there was no other choice.I had Walked across countries before I had climbed mountains. I have traveled to war torn nations and studied genocide and history.But this to me just felt so not coincidental in the most spiritual and essential part of the word that it was, it was, I was meant to do it.

You know, I think it's profound because I, I, when I say this reality is, is that the majority of people within a certain generation don't, don't think about World War I, for example.You know, they don't, they don't think about what took place in World War I, what impact that had on our current situation, our current, the world actually. From that perspective, did you know what pulled you towards that? Was it more distinctive? Was it just a calling?

I think it was. Good, go ahead. Oh, I think that it was a mix of the two. I think that you were right.I think that, I think a lot of people don't regard World War I as something that impacts today's world. And yet every single time you turn on the news, you know that that's not the truth like that.The truth is that World War I still has effects on us today. It's like, it's like almost like the aftershocks, the aftershocks of the Great War are still reverberating throughout the planet.And so for me, you know, there was a lot of times that, especially during COVID when people were talking about the Roaring twenties and they were talking about, you know, the pandemic and everything, it was like, they were like, oh, this is the first time this is happening in the history of the world. And you're like, nope, that's not. Let's, let's go, let's go back a century. Let's go back to the years before 1914, and let's learn about them.And not only learn about them, but see where history repeats or see where we've gotten gone, where we went wrong.

Yeah, I agree. I agree.World War I and World War II both had a profound effect on international relations as well as the political across the world, not just here, but everywhere. Before you took your first steps emotionally. Tell me about the journey. Let me just. Second, Let me form this the way I think that we should.I would like to know, before you took your first steps, how did you kind of formulate what you needed to do, what you wanted to do? Because you camped out at a lot of these places, correct? You slept in the areas?

Yes.

You know, tell me, how did you come to that decision? That instead of going out and doing just a little visit here and there that you were going to experience it from that perspective.

I think it was. It was so instinctual, it was so intuitively led that I didn't. It wasn't even. It was just almost like. It was like how.Like, you know, I had contacted the people that were developing the Western Front way before it was marked, and they're like, no, you should wait until it's marked. And I'm like, I can't. Like, there's something in my heart that I can't wait. There's no waiting. There's no.And it's not because I was in New York, I'm a New Yorker, but because it was just. My heart was like beating out of my chest and saying, like, you have to do this, and you have to do this now. There's no. There's no later.There's no waiting. It's now. So I think that it just kind of fell into place, you know, before I even contacted them.I would look at the map and then look at all the places that I might encounter along the way and develop. You know, I tried to develop a route for myself and say, okay, I'm going to walk here.But a lot of it wasn't entirely realistic because I was on my own two feet, so I didn't have a. So I, I, you know, I had to. I, like, you know, there were some days that I was like, oh, I'm gonna walk like 35 miles or something. And like that.No, that. That was never gonna happen. So I think that it was just. It. Everything. Everything lined up perfectly to the point where I couldn't turn.I. I was at the point of no return. The moment I learned about the Western Front.

It has to be emotional, Number one, walking in the foot steps, basically, of the soldiers that had been there, had died there, and the devastation, the loss, the grief, the sadness, the victories, the losses from step one. Were you emotionally impacted, or did that kind of continue to grow? And could you feel everything as you were walking that path?

I would say yeah, that's. I mean, that's a wonderful question.I think that in the beginning, I mean, before I even left, I was impacted because, you know, you learn about World War I, you read all Quiet on the Western Front, you read other books, and you look at the art that was created, you look at the photographs, and I think that I was already. Because I had studied war, and I'd studied the, like, war photography and, And. And.And war itself, that I had looked at the photos, and I was already so emotionally invested in it to Think, what did we do? What have we done?And so those first steps were so tentative because I knew in so many ways after studying history, what we had gotten ourselves into. It was the reconciliation of what now had I gotten myself into in walking the Western front.So I think that the emotionality, emotionality was there, you know, it was, it was never gonna leave me. It was never going to be a journey. Like I was more surprised, I was never surprised by the sorrow.I was so taken back by the amount of joy that I experienced from that perspective.

What happened? Anything in particular? What's a memory of what happened when you began walking, when you took your first steps literally on this route?

It was excitement. You know, when you go on a journey and you go for a walk like anywhere and then you're like, okay, like this is what I'm doing.I'm so excited to do it. And as soon as I got into the woods it was, I get that way all the time. I get very giddy when I get into the woods in the first place anyway.But being in crossing that border into, from Switzerland into France, because that's where I started, it was just, it was like, okay, now I'm in it now, now, now I am just at one foot in front of the other and I, you know, within the first mile there was, you know, a little bit of ruins and then after another mile there were farms and there were all these other things. Then after a while I saw a bunker and it was like, wow.Like I am in the middle of nowhere, walking along one of the most devastating landscapes of the world. And like I'm here to learn, I'm here to listen, I'm here to witness.So for me it was just, it was, it was from the, from the beginning it was just such a journey overlaid with so many different kinds of feelings.

To understand and sure. Help understand this.Did you have to get any clearances before you did all that or did you have to come up with something, paperwork or get something in preparation for being able to do that? Had you. I got a multi point question, sorry, all these things are running through my head. I don't want to forget them.Did you have to, had you planned on sleeping in each one of these areas or was your intention to go and sleep in a hotel or find a hotel and then go back on onto the trail? How does that transpire?

All right, so I'm a very solitary creature. I, I really like, I don't like. I, my, I don't, I, I'm very, I'm Like a. What is it? Like a.Like a terrible explorer because I do things so much on my own and, you know, don't have a team of people and everything else like that. I was so lucky before I left to be given access to the GPS system. Yes. Route. But the woman that gave it to me, she goes, yeah, there.There's nothing like you. You really. You really. You're really going into the wilderness. And I was like, fine, that's cool. Like, I'm down for it. You know, I bought a tent.I have my sleeping bag. I have. My hiking boots were already worn in. So I was like, I got this. You know, it's. What's the big deal? I'm going to go camp out and.And wake up the next day and hike what's. You know, what's. It was not something that was an anomaly for me. It wasn't something that I was like, can I do this?So I did not have to get clearance because it was France and the French are very active. They spent a lot of time outside. They have routes along their countryside called Grand Rendonnais. So it wasn't like, oh, my gosh.It wasn't like you would get restricted access. And the places that had restricted access were places you didn't want to go anyway because they're unexploded ordinance.So there's still shells that have yet to detonate in those areas. So if it said access into D, you're like, okay, I'm staying away from.

There, not going there. You know that. That's amazing that there's ordinance still out there, buried everywhere or sitting where it can still explode this.This long afterwards. That's crazy.

Yeah. And they still find it. They call the Iron Harvest.So for every year that the go to farm the landscape, they actually had to put special equipment on the bottom of their tractors and their farming equipment. So that way if they were to. If they were to like come across a shell, then that way they'd be protected and they wouldn't lose their lives.But, you know, they're. They still find shells. They. People still lose their lives and they still, you know, but they have a system to limit that.

So pretty much the war, in a sense, the war has never gone away.

No, no. And they said that it will take another 300 years for everything. Yeah. So the war, like that's my central argument is that the war never ended.

What? That. That's just us. Wow. What was the first moment on the walk that kind of made you think, did you bite off More than you could chew, so to speak.

When I had the wrong bottle of water, like, I got there and I was like, oh, this is fancy. I'm gonna get this. And then, you know, you realize, like, I got. I got like, more. It was like a soda, but in a fancy bottle.So I didn't realize, you know, So I think that. And then I was. That's when it was like the second or third day, so my body was starting to really get sore and so I was hobbling a little bit.I was carrying my backpack. It was less than 30 pounds, and I got the wrong water. And I thought to myself, oh, my gosh, like, I have to be smarter about this.I have to make sure that I am properly equipped and I'm hydrated and stuff. But, like, I don't think I ever. There was never a doubt that I bit off more than I can chew. It was the fact that I. I had to see it through.You know what I mean? It wasn't like. It wasn't until I got. Yeah, once I started it, there was no turning back. There was never. There was never a.Just like, you know, when I got to The Somme After 400 something miles, I was crying because it was just. It was so hard and it was the same war, you know, but other than that, it wasn't bit off more than I could chew. I needed to be in nature.I needed to be by myself. I needed to process not only the Great War, but my own life and where I was at the time and what I was sorting through again, I.

Think as you went, as you went on this journey, you said it was emotional.I can definitely understand that because anybody that knows anything about the Western Front, anybody that has watched the movie or read about it or been. I mean, I was in the military. You think about that all the time on a cop. Every day I walk out the door, didn't know if I was coming back home again.Different kind of war, but, you know, same feeling. There's fear in the air. There's, you know, people are scared and the loss, there's grief and there's anger, there's resentment.You know, all that stuff gets buried in the soil, so to speak. Did you find a point in that journey that you found yourself changing?

I. I think that, like, maybe when you put it like that, then, yeah, there, there you feel like, you know, I am a huge not fan, but like, when I go into a. To nature, when I go into the forest, I like to put my hands on the ground and I like to Feel what it feels like.You know, I like to connect with it in that way. And so I don't. I think that that might have been that way had I gone right after the war ended, but I think that so many years have passed that.That, you know, what we all hope for in our lives with that. That fear and that anger and that sadness and that grief and everything you ever talk. You just spoke about, I'd like to think that.That the Earth has let go in the ways that I was trying to let go in my own life. So it was. I didn't feel it as much as I might have, but it was still present.

I can admire that because I wholeheartedly believe I do the same thing you do. I believe in touching the earth and feeling the earth, and that Earth has a vibration. Earth carries memories.I hardly believe that our souls connect with Earth in a way that is profound. From that, I guess we could take solace in understanding that it is healed enough to not really carry so much more of that grief.Did you meet any people along the way that. I mean, Warburton was a long time ago.Did you meet anybody along the way, positive or negative, within your journey, either supported what you were doing or had people who had experience being on the front line?

No. I mean, I think the last soldier that fought in the Great War was. Was lost in the early 2000s or the late 90s. So, no, probably the early 2000s.I think it was like 2008, 2000. Like they had this long, long life. But I, you know, I think that I was very blessed along my journey that I was as walking with angels.I think that I was surrounded by them and even the soldiers and everything. I don't think that, you know, as much as it felt like it was haunted, I did not have a negative experience, and I'm very blessed in that way.I feel very, very, very, very, very grateful and lucky to be able to go out into nature and have the interactions that I do and the experience that I have without it being negated by something tragic and terrible happening to myself and my body.

That was profound. Do you mean anybody else on the trail?Were there any locals or caretakers, historians that happen to be out there with you, or were you pretty much solitary?

No, it was really solitary. Like, you, you know, like, you pass through towns and stuff like that.You met people that, like, lived in the towns and they would, you know, the French have this really, really, really special way of saying bonjour. You know, as soon as they see you, they. They Greet you. They don't. Yeah, they don't. They don't walk past you and ignore you. They. They see you.They acknowledge you. And it's such a human. Human interaction. And so I had that almost everywhere I went.And then, you know, thank God, when there was restaurants, I would be there and, you know, they'd see me, the hot mess that I am, and with my backpack, and they're like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm walking the Western Front. They're like, oh, cool. Have fun.

Oh, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. Well, you know, that. That also kind of takes the stigma. I love. I'm a. What do they call a bit of Francophile.

Yes.

Out of everything about France. And, you know, we. We're going there next year and we just. It's a. I am diligently learning French because I lost everything I learned in high school.We won't say how that was. We'll just say we. We forgot.But, you know, everybody I've ever had a conversation with, you know, I've talked about how embracing the French people are. So, I mean, that's. That's going to be positive from that perspective.I had a conversation with two brothers who walked the Appalachian Trail here in the United States, and they had a similar story, but not a lot of times it wasn't as welcoming. Just some of the towns and the people that they ran into through the Appalachians. So that's the reason I asked that question.I think, you know, the difference is profound. I think from there, I think it's.

Also different when you're walking the Appalachian Trail because there are tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people that walk the Appalachian Trail every year. And, you know, for me, walking the Western Front, it was like, maybe there's tens, maybe there might be hundreds, a lot more cycle.So it was a different kind of. It's not as much of an intrusion. It's almost like, oh, you are. You know, you stand like you. You're.You're walking through history as opposed to just walking through nature. It's. It's. There's a. I think there's a huge difference.

Can I ask you this? Because the. Had you taken this trip before or after you lost your friend?

I took this trip, so I lost my friend when I was nine. And it's interesting. So I was just talking to my nephews about this, that it was a grief that I carried with me my whole life.You know, that loss, that tragedy was something that I never, not that I want to let go of. I wanted to remember her forever. I want to remember her forever and ever and ever.And to keep her with me and have her walk with me and walk side by side with me. But it was just something that I. You know, it was so many layers of processing between that loss and then.And then having it translate into anger and then to have that translate into wanderlust and then trying to filter out all of the different ways in which it had an effect on me and what that loss meant to me and how it impacted my whole life.

Well, grief. Grief has a way of breaking us open in unexpected places, unexpected ways. Sometimes we don't know when it's going to happen.Grief is something we all have to go through in order to try to heal. And I think personally and professionally. I say professionally because of my old job.You know, it's one of these methodologies that once we recognize that we are in a grief stage of some sort. I don't believe. I know that they talk about the five stages of grief, and I do see that happening quite a bit, but I think some people get stuck in.Well, I need to do stage one. I need to do stage two. But I think from my experience and from the conversations I've had on this show is that those stages can.Don't have to happen in order.

No, it's so. It's so far from linear. It's. You know, you want to go through those stages. You want to say, okay, I am finally getting to acceptance.And then you have something that sets you back, and you're like, no, no, I'm angry again. Or I am sad and despondent. Like, it's just. It's almost like spiral. Like, not in a bad way.Like, you're not spiraling of control, but it does it almost like. It's like the grief orbits you. It orbits you. And like, some days you're the black hole, and sometimes you're. Some days you're the star.

And I think that from your perspective, were you able to deal with any of that grief on this journey in particular? Did that help me get through, understand your loss?

Yes, very much so. Because I think that it.I think that my grief was compounded with the grief of the amount of soldiers that lost their lives and what was lost during the Great War. So in a lot of ways, as much as I was walking by myself, I wasn't traveling alone. I was there with the soldiers, with the nurses, with the.With the people that had lived in France that during that time with the Germans, with. With the whole world that was affected by this war that broke the world's heart.You know, and I think that, like you said, grief is something that breaks you open.And I think that, you know, I was able to look at the Great War after a while, that it broke us open and we've just not healed from it, you know, and I think that that's something we need to really process well.

And I. That goes along with intergenerational trauma. Intergenerational trauma carries forward.And, you know, I was introduced to that term probably four years ago now by an individual on this show as well. And that intergenerational trauma was something that even in all of my work, domestic violence in my.In my career, that domestic violence had to deal a lot with people who fought a lot of fighting, a lot of arguments, loss, families breaking up, loss, and the intergenerational trauma that had been brought forward. Do you think any of that intergenerational trauma kind of was able to come back and hit you while you were walking this path?

Oh, very much so. Because, you know, you still, you know, you walk down the path and you see so many reminders of the great war.You see memorials, you see cemeteries, you see all this other stuff. And then you. Don't you remember that it wasn't just the men that died after the. After the war ended or during the war. You had people that.The villages that I passed through that lost their sons, that lost their husbands, that lost their. Their fiances, their loves, their brothers. And you. You feel it. And then.And then, not only that, but then 20 years later, signs of everything that happened during World War II. And then you see afterwards, like, the. The. The smallness of these towns and how people don't live there anymore. They live in the bigger cities.So it's. It's.It's, you know, or you go into a cathedral and you see the beauty of the cathedral, but then you also see the names of those who lost their lives. So the trauma is still there. The trauma. I mean, like, I wish there was a different.Sometimes I wish there was a different word for trauma, because sometimes it feels like. So it feels like too big of a word. And that, you know, like, trauma is so many different things all at once.And how it affects us is different for all of us or how we. How we heal from it or overcome it or even just let it consume us. It's just so. It's. It. It's so. It's so. It's such a deeply profound word.So the trauma is, you know, some days it's light, some days it's heavy. And, you know, how do you work? How do you move through it? You know, like, I walked 500 miles across France moving through trauma.And yet it sounds so trite when you say it. It sounds like it's so, like, oh, my God, I have so many issues. I need to process my trauma. And it's like, no, like I'm.I'm a human being with big emotions and big feelings and big thoughts and, and all of these things. And I, I, I. I want to understand as much as I can, and I want to understand it not only in myself, but I want to understand it in the world.So is it always trauma, or is it just like you said, life happens. You can't. It's life.

It's life. Life happens, unfortunately. We're born, we live a life. We have ups and downs. We have obstacles, we have triumphs, we have tragedies, we have loss.And sometimes it takes us a long time. I lost my father. I was 17 years old, 15, technically, because. And seeing him for two years before he passed. And it took me.Now I'm going to age myself. This is a secret. We can't tell anybody. It took me more than 50 years to kind of really deal with that and to understand.It took me a really long time to start understanding the reasons why that I lost my father, because I never got answers as to why. And that stuck with me forever. And because of that, I was angry, I was resentful. I was, you know, and somebody'd say, oh, I get to do this. My dad.That was my dad. I get to go here with my dad, go fishing with my dad. And I could never say that because of what was taken away from me.Didn't appreciate my stepfathers. I had a stepfather, that brilliant man. I didn't appreciate him enough with understanding that because I still hold that resentment.So it took me a really long time. The reason I.This show evolved and came through, because I wanted to help people understand it doesn't have to take 50 years to understand trauma and understand loss and grief and how to work through it, and that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And that we have the opportunity to heal from what we've learned through that grief and that frustration and that anger.

I love that, Michael. That is, It's, I think. And that's like, you know, to parallel your story. You don't have to walk 500 miles to process that grief either.You know, you can Take one small step. Or you can sit with it. You can, like, sit with it and feel it and breathe through it and. And. And just acknowledge it. I think grief is some. One.Something that it wants to be recognized. It wants to be seen. It doesn't want to be hidden. So that way it becomes something else.So it's not like, you know, suppressed and made into this like a volcano, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, we're allowed to grieve.

Yeah. And I think that that's what's.What I always go back to is that during the Great War, so many men lost their lives, so many lost their sons that the grieving process of the world changed. Like, they were like, women in England were not allowed to wear.Like, not everybody was like, they were like, maybe you shouldn't wear black, because then you'd see a whole sea of black walking down the streets of London. And so, you know, like, the fact that grief was taken away from us during the Great War is something that is so.That breaks my heart even more, because if we had given. If we had given the.Been given the time to grieve, then maybe we wouldn't have been so brutal during the Treaty of Versailles, and maybe we wouldn't have been so harsh to.And I say we because I'm a human, and humans were existing in that, you know, and so, like, we wouldn't have been where we just wanted to let it go or forget about it and move on. I think there's so many people that don't go into the depths of. Because I'm a poet, I'll call it despair. They don't go into those depths.And so they want you to get over it. They want you to just move on and say, oh, I hope. I hope you'll be okay. And it's like.

And move on.

I was like, I'm gonna be okay. It's just. Don't. Don't say those things. Like, I'm gonna be okay. And maybe. Maybe for two minutes today, I'm gonna be okay.Maybe for five minutes tomorrow, I'm gonna be okay. But right now I don't need to be okay. So, you know, like, let. Just. Just, you know, that's. It's okay for me not to be okay, you know?

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And. And. And recognize that and accept it and embrace it and. And that you are. Like you said earlier, we were talking about the. The stages.It doesn't matter. Don't. Some.Somebody tells you you have to go through stage one and then get to stage two, to stage Three, I'm just emphasizing what we said earlier doesn't have to work that way. It doesn't have to work that way. They come when they come, but you got to allow them to come and open that door.When you look back on the Western Front, what did that teach you about grief, identity and resilience? I mean, you just mentioned about all these thousands of people that lost somebody, and then we move into this.Did it teach you anything that you could pass on and help us understand a little more of this journey? So that journey affected you and can affect us?

Yeah, that's a wonderful question, too.I think that what I learned is that no matter what, even if you look at the trench warfare and stuff like that, there's still people that are resilient. And you look at the people that survived the war and moved on from the war and then created art again and wrote poetry again or invented again.It's almost like that, that it is hope that sustains us. And even in the times that we don't have hope, it is that hope that we need more than anything.And if we don't have that, then that's when we lose everything. And so, you know, what is that like?You know, I, I always, you know, when people experience loss and tragedy, my wish is that, you know, that, that, that it, that one day they'll be okay.That one day they will look back and say, that was terrible and that was awful and this was, you know, and, but also be able to say, but I, I learned something, something from it, or I, I, I became more because of it and not less.

That was profound, you know, and, and I agree with you. I think that we as human being have to give ourselves some grace in regard to working through it.As I said, it took me 50 years to work through my own fathers, but once I understood, gave me a better understanding, and I let go of the anger and the grief, and I wish I'd have done it 49 years.

Before, but I think that also, I think we are very lucky to be living in the time that we do. As much as, you know, we were talking about technology and those glitches and stuff like that.I think that our understanding of psych and the human heart has evolved to the point where we can talk about this more, where you're not just brushing it under the rug or forgetting about it and, like, keeping a stiff upper lip, but you're actually sitting there and saying, like, you, you said it, it took you 59 years, but at the end of the day, 50 years ago, would you be able to have this conversation as a 17 year old boy?

Exactly, it, it, it, exactly 1,000%. How did walking physically move you through the history, changing the way you understood your father? I'm not your father.But understanding basically your life, how did you connect your life to that? That's a long walk to command you. I really have to commend you.

It was a long walk. It was a beautiful walk though. It was something that was like very meaningful to me.So like going and being part of this walk and everything, like it was just one of those things that I, I learned so much. I learned so, so much.And it was just, I think physically I, you know, it was that idea that, okay, one more mile, one more step, one more, one more day closer to. And it was never the end. It was never the end of what? Like there was never an end.Even when I got to the North Sea, even when I walked 500 miles, I knew that it was really just the beginning, you know, because it was, it was being like you said before, like I got, I, I, I began to see life in a different way and in the way that I was meant to see life.And I think that we have to, going back to those five stages of grief and the linearity and, and walking 500 miles, you don't need to do all that stuff, but also you need to move through it and, and change your perspective to be able to process it in a way that works better for you. Because sometimes like I, I, I think that we, we live in a society where we numb ourselves and we dismiss things and we don't need to do that.I think that we need to confront it. You know, it's like I always liken my walk along the Western Front to the war that I have within myself. You know, what's the difference?You know, these men went to the front lines, they had this war of attrition and it was futile. It didn't get you anywhere. And there was no victory, there was only defeat. What's the difference if I do that within myself?You know, if I, if I sit there and I, and it's, it's defining madness. If I, if I, if I look at my life and I approach, you're right, and I approach it, oh, I should have got my water too.But I, if you approach it in the same way and nothing changes, that's, that's, that's on you. That is on you. And, and, and you know, you could sit there and say you're a victim of circumstance But.But we also create our own fate and our own future. So you could sit there and let the most tragic things debilitate you, or you can figure out a way to move through it.And I study the Rwandan genocide, and you had one of the greatest tragedies in the 20th century take place there. And yet they have found a way. And I don't know how I feel about forgiveness. It depends on the day.But I think that them, knowing that they still have to live side by side with one another, they find a way. They find a way. No matter how hard it is, the human heart finds a way.

Well, I think resilience, humanity within itself, I think we have an innate responsibility to be able to understand that we all are humans and that we all live on the same planet, that we all need to help each other in order to survive as humanity.Whether or not the compassion, the empathy, the understanding breaks through so that we help our fellow human beings through those issues and through those journeys, unfortunately, is sometimes sequestered and put in a closet, so to speak. And I think that I would only hope and pray that.But the universe opens those doors enough to allow people to understand that we all are human beings. We all want the same thing. We want love, we want life, we want fun, we want to enjoy ourselves. We want to eat, we want to play. We want to love.In that we all want to do it in the same manner, the same way, the same feeling. We need it.

Yeah.

We need each other.

We do. No, you're right. I think that. And like you said, like, I hope that you hope that, like, we don't close the doors of humanity.And I think that there are certain instances in the modern world that we have done that because we think that we have all these windows that make us see what. What, like, see the. The world as it is.And meanwhile, it's like, no, you're being shown it as opposed to actually going out there and experiencing it. There's a huge difference. And I think it's so true. We do. We all want love and understanding and compassion and kindness and. And, you know, you.It's interesting because there's so many different levels of empathy, you know, and there's so many different ways of that we, we. The. Like, you know, not. Not everyone in this. On this world, in this world was given the gift of empathy.And I think that, you know, we need that balance in a lot of ways in order. You know, it just. It's just that's the way it is. That's the. That's that's fate. That's. Who knows. Who knows what? But, you know, I.You know, if the world. If everyone in the world were given, then it might be better. It might be a better place. You know, we would be in a different place than we are.But maybe that's what we're. We're evolving to, is that we overcome the traumas that we've. We've been forced to experience and gain empathy because of it.

Well, I would hope so. And, I mean, you said it earlier, we were talking about the fact that we've evolved.I. Technically, now, especially through technology, we've evolved more so in the last 20 or 30 years than we ever have.And that technology allows us an opportunity to be able to kind of expand our awareness of what's going on in the world, what's going on in our neighborhoods, what's going on in other people's lives, to help open those doors, because.

Absolutely. You know, I think that it helps. What's that? Keep going.

No, no, you, please. First.

I was going to say, I think that, you know, for me, I know I wrote my first book because I felt so lonely, despite my bigotry and family and how much I was loved and how much I loved. And no matter how much I still have my big family, you know. You do. You can't help but feel alone.And also, being an introvert, surprisingly, people are like, you're an introvert. I'm like, if I could be alone for days, like, I'm cool with that. Like, hence walking the Western Front. But, you know, like, I also. Yeah, alone. Alone.I mean, there were. There were cows and there were mice and there were, like, birds and stuff. There was.

That's a different kind of family.

Yeah, it's a totally different family. But, like, I think that, like, you know, I think that the reason why I love to write is to let people know that they're not alone.You know, like, they are. They are part of the family of humanity.And so I think that walking the Western Front and experiencing those things and to be able to relay it through words is such a beautiful gift, you know, like, it's.

Yeah, it's brilliant. Sorry, I mean, to cut you. That's brilliant. What an opportunity to inspire people and motivate people.From that perspective, what had you always wanted to be an author? I forgot to ask you this in the beginning. Would you start out in life where I started?

Like, no. Since I was 4 years old, all I wanted to do was be a writer. I had only, like.Yeah, so like going back to the stories and then going back to all the books that my mom and dad gave me and we talked about and stuff like that. And even in school, like all I ever wanted to do. Well, I want to be the president of the United States too. And it was like, you know, was.

It, I think you would have done a brilliant job.

It depends on the day. It depends on the day because some days I'd be a dictator, some days would be a dictatorship. Some days I say this because I teach fitness classes.I'm like, today's a democracy, tomorrow might be a dictatorship.You know, like, it just depends on, it depends on how it goes, you know, And I know people throw those words around and everything, but I think that, I think that, listen, I think that the world is wanting for true leaders. I really truly do. But I think that my, my, my gift that I've been given is writing. And I'm so grateful for it.

Yeah, it's amazing.I think that, and the journeys that you are sharing with other people through your writing, like I said, I believe walking the western flight, you could say I wrote that I sacrificed my health, my well being, my sanity to walk 500 miles to bring you this journey. You should buy it.

Yeah, but it wasn't a sacrifice for me. I feel like my health, my wellness, except for my quads halfway through and everything. But I don't think it was a sacrifice.I think that for my, my sanity, for my well being. It was such a profound impact on my spirituality that like, it wasn't a sacrifice.It was like, it was like almost like I was the lamb to this, you know, I mean, like, like not the lamb.It was like, it was like I was listening to Dagio for Strings yesterday and I was listening to like the lamb of God and I was like such a beautiful, like, you know, I think that we have to have those experiences in order, like I said before, to relay them. So it's like, yeah, like I, I don't know.I don't, I, I, I worked really hard to, to, to, to not only save money and prepare for the front, but also the years that I spent writing the book afterwards. I'm like, that was the right, the real sacrifice was the, was the writing afterwards. Like walking through France like you're a Francophile.Walking through France and eating foie gras and drinking wine. Not so sacrificial.

That's a sacrifice I'm willing to do.

Oh, I will listen, I'll go to him. I'll go again tomorrow.

That in itself, I mean, that's a bigger selling point right now. Who is carrying their own grief, you know, one step at a time type thing.I know that we mentioned some of these, but to reiterate or to kind of enforce what we've been talking about, do you have any advice for people moving forward to their own grief and especially through this journey, both personal grief as well as feeling all the other grief that you did through this journey?

I think that just let it stay grief, let it remain grief, and acknowledge that grief. And the minute it turns to anger is when you start to harden. And like we were just talking about before, that, we are meant to be empathetic.We are meant to feel things. We are meant to have these deep experiences.And if you take that grief and it turns into anger, it takes away from those experiences of what you can fully, truly experience. And so there is. It's. It's. It's a blurry line. It's not. It's not this definitive line.You don't just sit there and say, okay, in this moment, I'm in grief. And then in a moment, like as soon as I step over that line, it's anger. It's like. It's almost like this. Like, it's like this.It's like it's insidious sometimes. And it just. And. And so recognize that it's okay to be angry too, because anger is just another form of sorrow. But don't. Don't sit with that anger.Don't let that anger consume you. Don't let that anger define who you are, because that is not who we are meant to be.

Brilliant. That's brilliant. And I agree with you. You know, it is. I lost family members early. I've lost. We all have loss.From my own personal perspective, you know, I understand loss. Sort of like you walking that journey. You know, I investigated homicides, suicides, you name it. Accidental deaths, natural deaths.During a very long career in law enforcement, you see death on a daily basis. In some cases, I won't say busy times, but there are times of year. I had five suicides between Christmas Eve and Christmas Day one year.And it changes your perspective on all aspects of death and how life can change in an instant.And embracing life to a positive point and I think, adding to what you were saying, I think that we as individuals and humans need to recognize that grief is a normal process. In that normal process, we all have to go through it. You can't push it away. You can't hide it, because when you bury it, you get angry.From personal experience, I can tell you that not in a book, but from personal experience, I was angry for a really, really long time. Then it turned to resentment. And that anger and resentment just continued to smother the love that I had for my father. You know what I mean?One of those things.So, yes, I think that people need to take the time, take the steps, take the work, recognize it, and believe in themselves that they will come through it in a way that will make them a better person.Because, not to sound cliche, something things happen for a reason, and we can choose to take a step forward with it or make a better person of us, or we can choose to wallow back and allow it to succumb us into something that we shouldn't be. You know, and that. That's. That's a. That's not good.

No, it's not. And I think that, like, you doing these podcasts and you sharing.Being able to share these stories and be able to, like, I think it helps people again to say, like, okay, like, where's the difference? Because there's no difference. There's no difference between anger and grief. But like, once. Once you become resentful, then, like, what, Then what?What is life then? It's not joyful, it's not happy, it's not. It's not pleasant. It's just. It's just a burden. And like, what? That's. That's. Life is meant to be beautiful.It's not meant. There's too much ugliness in this life anyway. Why. Why would you make it more ugly?

Exactly. A thousand percent. When you look back at your journey, the grief, the walk, the revelations, what was the moment you almost turned back?What kept you going? This is my almost question.

Oh, yeah, the almost. The Psalm. When I walked along the psalm, I got to the psalm and I just. I would. Walked like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miles and I just.And it got flatter. Like, so I was in the mountains at first that. So the photograph on the, on the front cover is in the mountains.But then as you walk up north of France, it just gets flatter. And it like, you know, even though it was the end of September, it got hotter. And, you know, I was just tired. I was so tired.And I just like, I was like, what's the point? Like, who cares? Like, if I'm sitting there and, and, and like walking this way? Like, what? Who cares? Like, what.Who am I to sit there and think that my. Me walking this Western Front is going to impact anything that goes on in the world.If this war couldn't have been stopped for four years, who am I to think that I have the right to talk about it and to go on this journey? And so, yeah, I almost turned back, but then I looked at the map and I was so close to the end, and I just kept on going. Because why. I'm not.I'm not a quitter, you know, I don't like to give up. I know when to throw the towel, and I know when to dip out. And I have picked.I've, like, now learned when to pick and choose when to be competitive, because I am a very competitive person. But I know, like, if you want to be competitive with me, go right ahead. Like, you win. Like, it's fine. Like.But I think that being competitive with yourself and knowing that when you make a decision to see it through, that would be my. Yeah, I almost. Yeah, I almost definitely gave up.

Well, I'm glad that you didn't, because obviously we wouldn't be having this conversation.And I think that, you know, this journey is a profound opportunity for us to understand through your eyes and what you experienced, the fact that we as human beings have something to live for.

We do. We do have something. We have something tremendous to live for. And it's. Even if it's just life.

Exactly, exactly. Let's talk about how. Oh, let me ask you this. I forgot to ask you this. How long did it take you to walk 500 miles?

36 Days.

36 Days?

Yeah.

It was kind of a varying. Like, every day you would walk.

Yeah, I would walk. There was like two or three. There was, like four days that I didn't walk. So, like, my friend was in Paris. She's like, come visit. I'm like, okay.And then I. Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, no, Paris. Why? And then there was a time that I just.Like, when I got to Lorraine or like, North Valsas, like, when I'd gone, like, gone through all the mountains and my body was tired and needed to hydrate, I was like, I'm gonna sit down for a day and just give my body rest. Because, like, I've walked hundreds of miles across another country and I didn't get my body rest. And I'm like, you know, I'm an athlete.Like, that is just as important.

Right? Yeah. Healing, healing, healing. Gotta heal the body before it'll let you go move forward again. I learned that lesson the hard way.

It's not a good lesson to learn. If you keep pushing through, your body's gonna. Your body's gonna push back.

Yes, yes, yes. That's a whole different story.

Oh, totally.

Let's talk about how they can find your book, please.

So you can find my book on Amazon. It is available. There will come Soft Rains, A Journey on the west along the Western Front. And I don't know, if you email me, I can send it to you.I can send you a signed copy if you like. To find me where I go to symposiums and conferences and book fairs.

And you have two other books other than that one as well?

I do. I do. My first one was Mosaic, and my second was I Once Was a Pilgrim. So it's almost like. It's almost like each story relays.It's not a trilogy, but it's almost like each story is, you know, an evolution of the one before.

And where's your website, please?

It is called. It's www.but if you look up brianna.com, it'll lead you right to the same place.

And I'll make sure it's in the show notes, too, so that it'll be easy enough for people to find you. I. I always do words of wisdom before we leave, because this is one more thing before you go.So after everything that you've lived, everything you've carried, everything you've. You've learned, what's the one piece of wisdom you want people to hold on to as they navigate their own life through grief? Or not. Not grief.

I'm gonna steal a phrase from Nike. Just do it. Just do it. Like, you know, like, you know, and I.And I should take my own advice because, you know, like, there's so many times that we all hold ourselves back or. Or sell ourselves short and everything. But, like, I mean, you got this one life. You have this one beautiful, profound, deep, meaningful life.Like, like, just go for it. Just, just, just, Just embrace it.

Just do it.

Yeah.

Do it. Do it now.

Absolutely, man.

Thank you very much for your honesty and your courage, and you're sharing your journey, your everything that reminds us of how deeply human we are and grief is. I appreciate you sincerely, and I appreciate you reaching out to me, and I was an honor to kind of have conversation with today.

Oh, it's been such an honor to speak with you too. This has been such a lovely, lovely, lovely conversation. I enjoyed. I enjoyed sharing this. This time with you.

Well, I. I'm looking forward to your next book. And when you do, let me know and we'll have another conversation.

It'll be three years from now. That's how long it usually takes me to write a book.

Knock. Knock on wood. I will still be here.

Knock on wood. Hopefully I will, too.

So thank you very much again for being part of the show. And I'll be right back.

All right, thank you.

As I said, with everything Brianna just shared, I'm struck by now, grief doesn't just break us, it redirects us. Her walk across the restaurant front wasn't about history alone.It was about finding the places where memories still echoed but have healed long since. Maybe that's the real lesson today, that healing isn't loud. It's quiet. It's slow. It's found in the steps that we take.And we don't know where we're going, but we do know we can stay where we are and we can heal through our own positive outlook. That's a wrap for today. I hope that you found inspiration, motivation and a few new perspectives to take with you.If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to, like, subscribe and follow us. Stay connected. You can find us on Apple, Spotify or your favorite listening platform and head over YouTube and catch the full video version.Have a great, great week. Have a great day and thank you for being part of our community. Until next time, I'm Michael Hurst and this is One more Thing before you Go.

Thanks for listening to this episode of One more Thing before you Go.Check out our website @beforeyougopodcast.com you can find us as well as subscribe to the program and rate us on your favorite podcast listening platform.