Crafting Supernatural Thrillers: Exploring Spiritual Depths in Fiction

Michael Herst
00:00:01

Have you ever wondered what it takes to craft a supernatural thriller that intertwines suspense with spiritual and philosophical depth? Or how a multicultural upbringing can shape a writer's storytelling?

In this episode of One More Thing before you go, we are going to dive into this fascinating world of Ali Kaden. He's an author who brings a rich cultural perspective to his writing.

Growing up between the United States and Egypt, Ali adds layers of complexity to his characters and plots.

His debut novel, the Past Awakens, is set in the seemingly tranquil town of Bedford, where a malevolent colonial era spirit emerges to haunt the community. The protagonist, a local real estate agent, must form an alliance with the mysterious necromancer to combat this dark force. Your host, Michael Herst.

Welcome to One More Thing before you go. Ali writes outside the box, combining international characters with esoteric themes in his fiction. He also does nonfiction.

We're going to talk about all of those. His work reflects deep spiritual, philosophical, and metaphysical concepts alongside his suspenseful and thrilling plot lines.

In addition to his fiction, he's passionate about discussing the intersection of science, religion, and spirituality, which features in his latest nonfiction book. When he's not writing, Ali manages a real estate business in Boston and is an avid enthusiast. Excuse me, an avid boxing enthusiast.

Welcome to the show, Ali.

Ali Kaden
00:01:48

Thank you, Michael. Thank you so much for having me on.

Michael Herst
00:01:50

What an interesting journey in your writing career.

Ali Kaden
00:01:55

It's a journey for sure. And when I, when I set on this journey, I didn't know where I was going or which direction I would be taking.

Michael Herst
00:02:05

You know, my father was a writer, so I grew up in a newsroom, and I grew up with the sound of typewriters, as you can see, a little gray in my hair.

Back in the old days when before computers and fond memories of him typing and typing and typing and coming up and pulling this paper out and smelling the ink and seeing what was created from his mind, it fascinated me to no end. Had you always wanted to be an author? Let's start at the beginning. Where'd you grow up?

Ali Kaden
00:02:42

I was born in New York City. My family is Egyptian and they moved to New York in the early 80s.

My father had an employment opportunity and I lived there for the first 12 years of my life. And we're sort of the reverse immigration story where my dad and mom wanted to go back to Egypt.

And so I went back when I was 12 and continued, continued growing up there.

But I wanted to be a writer since I was a kid in New York, you know, five or six, I think, is when I first Thought of, I want to be a writer without fully understanding what that meant.

Michael Herst
00:03:23

Did you go to university?

Ali Kaden
00:03:26

I did. I went to Seattle University, creative writing undergrad.

Michael Herst
00:03:31

So you did. Other than. I know that you've written quite a few books. We're going to talk about some of them while we're on here. Did you.

Where did you go when you got out of college? Did you take a job as a writer or did something else shape your. Shape your life at that time, before you got into writing supernatural thrillers?

Ali Kaden
00:03:51

No, I.

You know, it's funny, but coming from an Eastern family, it's very common for us, for families to tell their kids they could be anything that they want in the world, as long as it's a banker or a lawyer or a doctor, an engineer, you know, and we have very practical mindsets when it comes to work and making money. And so that sort of mentality got into me when I was graduating college. And so I went into finance.

I had used my electives to have a minor in business, and I went into finance and stayed in that industry for over 15 years. And. And writing was a. Became a hobby that fell to the wayside. And I really only picked that up during COVID So quite.

Quite recent, in the recent past.

Michael Herst
00:04:47

My point. What inspired you to write supernatural thrillers?

I mean, obviously, you know, from this podcast, I talk a lot about the metaphysical and supernatural, paranormal environments and worlds and. And so forth. So I have a fascination with that inherently within myself. What. What inspired you to write supernatural thrillers?

Ali Kaden
00:05:08

Well, the first two books I wrote were nonfiction, and one was related to my. To my profession, real estate profession. The other was a fitness book.

And I realized that I was being cowardly and that I wanted to write fiction, but just was escaping into nonfiction because it was more practical. And so when I said, I'm gonna write a novel, I read up on self publishing and sort of what the trends are right now and genre fiction does the best.

You know, it's either romance or it's thriller or it's suspense. And paranormal was doing well. And I had grown up reading Stephen King and Dean Koontz, and I'd always loved those types of stories.

And so I said, all right, I'm gonna write a paranormal thriller, you know, with some horror elements. And I remember when I was a teenager, I had an experience or an encounter that was paranormal in nature.

And so I had that in my mind as a starting point or just, you know, something that I could rely on in personal experience to fictionalize. But I also read Stephen King's book on writing, which is his book about his author process before starting.

And he talks about writing situationally, sort of just picking a moment in time, a situation, and then expanding outwards from there. That seemed like a very cool experiment. And that's how I wrote my first paranormal thriller.

It was, I'm going to use this memory of my paranormal encounter and then fictionalize that and then see where it ends up.

Michael Herst
00:06:42

And that's really an interesting approach. I think that, you know, we all, at some point in our time have had, at least I feel this, we've all had a paranormal or supernatural experience.

And, you know, sometimes our innate nature pushes that down deep inside or tells us from whatever cultural or religious background we come from that, you know, we're not supposed to believe in that stuff. But obviously this influenced you into creating this world that you created in these, in these novels that you've done.

Did your multicultural upbringing influence any of that?

Ali Kaden
00:07:18

In a way, being from a multicultural background and being a student of English literature, I was always reading about a culture that wasn't my own.

And I loved the Transcendentalists and the Romantics and a lot of British literature, but culturally they were not, you know, what my family identified with.

And then when I was in college, when I was later on in my, you know, junior senior year in college, I started reading post colonial literature from India or the subcontinent. And these were, you know, a colony of the UK and or, you know, England at the time.

And people are, were getting educated in English and in Western culture, Indians, people in the subcontinent, and then writing these incredible novels that were using the mastery of the English language but basing it in their culture of origin. And that literature spoke to me a lot. And I wrote my thesis on a famous Indian author named Robin Dranath Tagore.

And so I've always been interested in that, bringing English literature into other cultures, not necessarily my own.

And so that's what shows up in my book is just a willingness to, you know, even though it's a New England ghost story, sort of, you know, ghost story that takes place in New England, just like a Stephen King book, the characters and their cultural influences are very international and expensive.

Michael Herst
00:08:56

The Past Awakens is this first book, right? And it's a series of books, is that correct?

Ali Kaden
00:09:03

It's a three book series.

Michael Herst
00:09:04

Three book series. And are the other two completed?

Ali Kaden
00:09:08

Yes.

Michael Herst
00:09:09

So you have all three of them. The protagonist in the past awakened. Do they stay consistent through those three?

Ali Kaden
00:09:18

She does, yes. There's two lead characters and they stay.

Michael Herst
00:09:21

Consistent yes, it's interesting. We talk about spiritual and philosophical aspects of even the supernatural, the paranormal.

As a writer and individualist, you know, putting this together and creating this in your mind, I've always found it fascinating.

As I told you earlier, before we started watching my father create stories and write, and he was in the middle, he was both a journalist as well as a novel writer. And watching the difference between writing out the news, which we'll talk about this in a second with your fiction and your nonfiction.

But watching the difference between him writing the news and then writing in his novel, I saw two different Personas emerge from him. From that perspective. How do you balance that? Do you like writing one more than the other?

Ali Kaden
00:10:18

That's a good question. For me, all the writing is related.

So the nonfiction book was about metaphysical studies and spirituality and world religion and the intersection of that with modern science, which in my mind is still fantastical and fun and awesome. Just like the paranormal thriller series. I think that dividing of personality happens in my day job, in my.

In my writing job, you know, where in real estate, I'm a little bit more pragmatic and a little bit more logical. And then when I'm writing, I'm being a little bit more artistic and trying to connect with the higher minds of something like that.

Michael Herst
00:11:07

Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. How do you balance the spiritual, philosophical aspect of your novels?

Ali Kaden
00:11:16

Well, you know, it's been an evolution the. The paranormal thriller series I wrote when. During a time when it. In my life where things were a little bit darker than they are now.

And so I was able to put a lot of. I was able to express a lot of what I had to express creatively in those novels.

And since then, my own personal spiritual evolution has taken a new direction or it's been rejuvenated. And I find myself having a lighter experience of that. And so the books that I'm writing now reflect that.

And as long as I feel like I have a thriving spiritual life, I'm sure it's going to come across in the books in some interesting way.

Michael Herst
00:12:04

So you had said earlier that part of your catalyst for you to write was a paranormal experience. Can you share that?

Ali Kaden
00:12:18

Yeah. I was a big fan of movies when I was a teenager, and I watched a lot of the paranormal stuff, and I just always was fascinated.

I was very curious, is this real? What can I experience? What's okay to try and what's not okay to try and. Just experimenting with boundaries and, you know, with respect to that stuff.

And so I had a book That I had bought, you know, a paperback from Barnes and Nobles, and it was about connecting with spirits. And I remember reading that book in my room when I was in high school at night.

And while I was reading this book, I had a very distinct sensation that. That something, you know, that the wind was blowing, and it was blowing the curtain, it was swaying in the wind in front of the window.

And I just had this feeling that something came into the room and came up very close to me and was staring at me with these malicious eyes. And I couldn't see the eyes, but I could feel them. And I put the book down, and I was terrified. And I barely slept that night.

You know, it felt like I had invited some kind of dark energy that I didn't want there. And the next day, I went to school, came back, you know, in the afternoon. It was still sunny. This is in Egypt now, so it's very sunny.

And I walk back into my room, drop my backpack on the floor, and it happens again. You know, this. The wind blows, the curtain blows, and this entity that I can't really see but can feel just rushes up to me and is staring at me.

And it's so visceral and tangible. And. And so it. And then I called my. My aunt in, and I'm like, do you feel this?

And she closed her eyes for one second, and she said, there's something in this room that isn't. That isn't good that you need to get rid of. And I had all these pictures that I'd ripped out of magazines and taped to the wall.

And so she said, we have to rip these things down. I think one of them is inviting some dark energies. And so we started ripping all these pictures off the wall.

And the last one that we had ripped off on the back of it was this profile of an artist who was really sadistic, I guess he had. He used to lure women to some place and torture them and paint them. And, you know, he was a serial killer painter.

And what's weird is that that was the back of the image that I had intended to put on the wall. The image I intended was a picture of Albert Einstein.

And when I felt those malicious eyes staring at me but I couldn't see them, I fixated on Einstein's eyes on the wall just as a reference point, to have some eyes to look into. So it was very odd that it turned out to be the back of that particular page that had this. That had this profile of this serial killer painter.

And then when we got rid of all that artwork. I stopped reading that book and never had that experience again. But. But. But that. That's what it was.

Michael Herst
00:15:28

That's pretty crazy. That works like that.

That's pretty amazing, actually, to be able to take that and then turn it into what you're doing and being able to kind of take hints and tips and learn from Stephen King, like the guru involved in all of this. How do you research for something for your book? Did you do research for this particular novel?

Ali Kaden
00:16:00

I did. It takes place in New England, and I fictionalized the town, but I based it on actual New England history.

So there's references to the Salem witch trials. There's references to just the industrial history of the Northeast, you know, the old shoe factories and the tanneries and that sort of stuff.

So that's referenced and researched a little bit. And then the main character, the second main character, Adrian, he's from Romania, from a small town in Romania named Visery.

And I couldn't tell you why he's from there, but it just, you know, creatively, Romania. Let's look for a place where he's from and did some research and found this really cool Saxon village in Transylvania. Adrian's from there.

And then once I decided that, I had to stay true with as much of the culture as I could whenever it comes up in the book.

Michael Herst
00:16:59

That's pretty cool, actually. I think that the evolution of watching your characters come to life from that perspective must be an amazing feeling.

Ali Kaden
00:17:08

It's funny, I'm realizing, as you say that right now that I can think of all those characters as distinct people. And which is funny because I made them up.

Michael Herst
00:17:22

But they're real. When they showed up on paper and ink from your mind to on the page, it made them real.

And the people that embrace them as they read them and enjoy them throughout the journey of that book, that novel, obviously you've created a fantasy for them to envelope themselves in, which I think is pretty cool, actually. Does your experience in real estate influence your writing at all? I mean, look, you.

And this is kind of maybe a weird question, but if you know my show, have you walked into any. Any of your real estate. You don't have to give any addresses, but have you had any paranormal or supernatural experiences in showing houses?

Ali Kaden
00:18:13

No, not at all. I've been to some houses before. I worked as a real estate agent where I definitely felt a presence, but now never happened while on the job. But. But.

But real estate does show up in the writing and that the main character, Evelyn, is a real estate agent. And I. And her, her listings are haunted, or at least one of them and two of them.

And I thought that was a cool starting point, you know, so I combined that with the paranormal experience that I had.

She walks into a, you know, into her own open house and all the people come and leave and after they're all gone, you know, she hears something in the basement and goes down there and that's when she has some version of the experience that I had, but a little creepier.

Michael Herst
00:19:05

A little creepier.

You know, when I went through college and university as well, both my bachelor's and my master's, you know, whenever we had to write something, they say write what you know. So I had to ask that question because, you know, it's.

You would think, especially with the areas that you grew up in and the history involved, that there might be something attributed to what you're writing.

Ali Kaden
00:19:33

When here in Boston, I work with developers and do a bit of development myself. And so when I wrote book two, I was thinking a lot about mill conversions.

There's been a lot of developers buying these old mill buildings and converting them into lofts and luxury apartments.

And so that is sort of the premise of, or the starting point of book two is this developer is coming in to develop this old tannery in Bainford and it's supposed to revitalize the town and bring in a whole bunch of money and people and tax revenue.

Michael Herst
00:20:09

Now, did you self published or did you go through a regular publisher?

Ali Kaden
00:20:15

Self published.

Michael Herst
00:20:16

For all the books you write outside the box with the international characters and the unconventional themes that you've got, I think that it's an opportunity for us to get involved in a, in a very kind of escape into a your world from that perspective.

Ali Kaden
00:20:35

And I'm, and I try to stay true to what the kind of books that I would want to read, you know, if it was. And I do want this to be commercially viable. Of course that's a goal, but it's not the only goal.

If it was the only goal, I'd be writing romance novels because 50% of the market is romance novels. And you know, that's what sells and. But that's not what I'm called to write.

And so, you know, it's a little bit of balancing what you love with what you should do sometimes. And you know, as a self published.

Michael Herst
00:21:06

Author, from my perspective now, this question is only related to another question that I've been thinking as we've been talking. Did you grow up in a very religious background?

Ali Kaden
00:21:20

No. Well, yes and no. I mean, I'M Middle Eastern, so I feel like everybody. Middle Eastern by default is from a very religious background.

Michael Herst
00:21:32

But how does that.

The intersection of science, I mean, supernatural and the paranormal, you can look at it from two different perspectives, I think, especially in creating the environments that you create. And I know that we. I grew up Catholic. I'm not a practicing Catholic any longer, but I grew up Catholic. And in those.

That Catholic environment, you always said, ghosts don't exist. You can't do this, you can't do that. And that the only people to talk to angels are actually priests and so forth.

When I, As I grew older, I come to realize, as I grew, coming of age at 18 and 19, I realized that the. That's not always true and that, you know, you can talk to angels, you can have. Have those kind of experiences outside of the religious aspect.

Do you. And this question. I hope I'm forming this question correctly.

Do you create the intersection with a little bit of science, a little bit of religion, a little bit of spirituality in both your fiction and your nonfiction work?

Ali Kaden
00:22:44

Yes. You know, thank you for sharing your background. You know, it's.

I grew up in a, you know, in a Middle Eastern Muslim family, but my aunt had an interest in Eastern spirituality, and so she would go to India and stay in ashrams. And I went with her as a teenager. And I was exposed to that. That culture.

And I had never solidly identified with the rigid, dogmatic, you know, religious perspective of right and wrong and heaven and hell and God and Satan, and it was very binary. And I just had no experience with those binaries, really.

But a lot, a lot of things started to click for me when I understood some of the Eastern concepts and applied them back to the original religion that I was taught. And in that perspective, there is no difference between religion and science and spirituality.

It's all just one thing expressed a whole bunch of different ways. And so I'm very passionate about telling people about that, you know, that, hey, reality is not what we think it is.

And, you know, look at this and look at that, and there's a lot of people who just don't care. You know, like a lot of people are, I want to live well. I'm not really interested in esoteric wisdom, but there's some people like me who care a lot.

And, you know, when you start talking about this stuff, they light up and you light up, and it's, you know, and that's what happens to me. And I think that's what's driving me forward.

Michael Herst
00:24:17

That's a Good way of doing that. I appreciate that very much.

I think that we as individuals have to open our minds, our hearts, our souls into what the possibility is out there and how we all exist within this world and aren't interconnected within ways that not many understand. So I appreciate your introspect on that approach. I think it hopefully will open people's eyes to the fact that there is more, that there is more.

What did you write first, may I ask? Non fiction or fiction?

Ali Kaden
00:24:54

Well, the first two books I wrote were short non fiction books, but this was just. I want to be a writer, but I'm not brave enough to write fiction. So one was about.

Yeah, one was about investment properties because I knew about that. The other was about fitness because I knew about that. But. But the first not fiction book that I wrote was what was the Past Awakens, the.

The book one in the paranormal series. Although in college I went and volunteered in Calcutta for three months with the Missionaries of Charity.

And I met a woman there and I was very inspired by. By who she was, her life story, what she was doing in India.

And I started to write this, a novel back then, you know, this is in 2000, but then in 2019, I took the ideas of that novel and turned it into a screenplay. And so I technically, that's the first fictional thing that I really completed is a screenplay of that, of that story, Cali on the Ropes.

And I've also released that as a novel. So that's one of the books that I have available on all the platforms.

Michael Herst
00:26:14

Which I think that you also mentioned to me. Right before we started, there was another book that will. That I've got and a few slides from here that you had written.

Ali Kaden
00:26:26

Yeah. The latest release is called An Eccentric Father's Guide to Everything.

And you know, on this topic of wanting to share metaphysical, esoteric wisdom and just the. The truth, you know, there's an inner dimension of experience. Not everything is analyzed externally and empirically with science, but there's.

If you go in, you know, there's a whole universe inside that can be explored as well. And I wanted my daughter to know that. And so the book is written to my daughter.

She's five, so it's going to be a while before she reads it, but that's what it is. And it talks about religion, spirituality, science, and how they all sort of interconnect.

And I tell her, I'm like, you know, listen, you have a Middle Eastern Muslim father. And most Middle Eastern Muslim fathers would just say, you know, hey, I'm going To imprint what was taught to me on you, no questions asked.

And I tell her, but you have kind of a weird dad who's into weird stuff. And so, you know, this is the best way that I could show you what I believe and what I practice and how, you know, we're all one.

It doesn't matter what you affiliate with. Like, you're still in the same spot doing the same thing, you know.

Michael Herst
00:27:41

Yep. Outstanding. I think that's profound that you wrote that for your daughter, and hopefully it'll, you know, it. It's a. It's a personal education.

When we were talking about your aspect of the.

The series, of the novels that you have written, all three of them, in regard to creating that series, you mentioned that you had written a screenplay first. Have you ever thought about turning that series into screenplays and moving it from the print to the screen?

You can't see my hands moving back and forth, but they are.

Ali Kaden
00:28:20

Yeah, I think I was doing the same thing. Expressive hand gestures, not showing up on the. On the. On the video. But, yes, I. I would love, you know, you know, Cali on the ropes.

I wrote it as a screenplay for that reason. And that book is kind of like. Or that story is kind of like Rocky, you know, the boxing movies.

Yes, but with a female protagonist set in India in underground, you know, fights, but. But same underdog, you know, against all odds, kind of spiritual of the character in the movie, and so very visual and would be a lot of fun.

And I think it would be very trendy, too, because it's about, you know, a multicultural female boxer who's fighting to win prize money to save children from sex slavery in India, you know, getting. Getting sort of abducted by this brothel. And so I feel like.

And the protagonist is recovered drug addict, too, so there's a lot of contemporary themes in that book or that story that I think would play well to film. And same with the paranormal thriller series. It's just. I guess it's up to whoever wants to make it.

Michael Herst
00:29:39

Why did you pick a female protagonist? The only reason I ask this is, look, I'm a very proactive individual in regard to.

I have two daughters, two brilliant, intelligent, beautiful young ladies that have been taught that they are empowered to do and to be whoever they want to be and so forth. So I respect that approach because I think that it empowers young women and young people to. To really understand that they can.

They can achieve what they need to achieve and want to achieve.

Ali Kaden
00:30:17

Yeah, I love that. And similar sort of. I've. I'VE always knew that I wanted the daughter.

And when I had a daughter, I was more called to write female protagonists, for sure. I also wanted to pick something that wasn't me. You know, I.

The easiest thing that I could write is some, you know, 40 year old middle Eastern guy who's doing stuff and, you know, and I'm going to write that too because, because it's right there. But I wanted to start with a, with a bigger challenge. You know, can I, can I write, can I write this from this different perspective?

Michael Herst
00:30:51

Well, I think it's admirable.

I said, I think that we as fathers, we as sons, brothers, you know, need to empower those around us, especially females and young ladies, in order to give them the opportunity to, to express themselves and to learn and know that they fit in this society in a very positive way. So from that perspective. Thank you. As a father. Thank you. On your journey with writing, it fascinates me.

I know that we've talked a little bit about why you wanted to be a writer. In creating the worlds that you wanted to create. Was it difficult to kind of build?

Some of us, some of us are very analytical, some of us are visual, some of us are audible. You know, sometimes we can picture something in our mind. Sometimes we have to be shown a picture to put that in our mind.

When you start creating your worlds, this environment that you've done, this whole, you know, the characters, the places, the places they're visiting, everything about what creates this story and the continuing story, is that something that you, if you don't mind me digging a little deeper, is that something that you can visualize as you write that, or do you have to lay it out first and then turn around and then create it a piece out of time?

Ali Kaden
00:32:19

That's a good question.

I think that I've changed writing styles entirely and I've heard in author circles there's Plotters and there's Prancers, I guess is the other one where you just sort of write aimlessly and see where you find out. And that one is the one that's more artistically inspired sort of versus the plot, where it's very structured.

The Thriller series, the first one, I sat with the language. Especially the first two books, I sat with the language and visualized and, you know, dreamed up these places and then put them on paper.

So it was a very artistic process. And the descriptions, I went, I spent more time describing, you know, somebody's eyelashes or something like something secondary to the plot.

But it was beautiful and it had to be said, and as I've written more books of, I've leaned a little bit away from that and I've been more plot. Plot driven and I've plotted before.

And so it's similar, except now, instead of the visual aspect, what I get, what sort of just comes naturally is this idea, like there's this juicy idea that I want to see come to life. And it's that inspiration that I take into a plot and begin to structure the story a little bit more from the start so that I know where I'm going.

Michael Herst
00:33:50

Are all three, the series that you have, those three books, do they all take place in the same area or do they move?

Ali Kaden
00:34:00

They all take place in the same area in Bainford, Massachusetts, which is sort of just north of Boston, between Boston and New Hampshire. The Romanian character, he leaves and comes back. He gets sort of spiritual advice from. From a friend of his, and that friend is in Egypt.

So the character in book one travels to Egypt. In book two, he's already in Egypt and travels back to Massachusetts.

And in book three, he and Evelyn go meet this individual, but they meet him in the Canary Islands because of, you know, some paranormal stuff that happened thousands of years ago. That's. That's where they need to meet.

Michael Herst
00:34:44

That's pretty interesting. Have you visited. I know that you've lived in Egypt, obviously. Have you visited the other places that you have in your book.

Ali Kaden
00:34:55

All around Egypt? Yes. And, you know, I live here, so New England, sort of. Yes.

I have not been to the Canary Islands, but I'm very interested in the Canary Islands because I guess in, you know, in metaphysical circles who talk about the lost civilization of Atlantis and this island continent that was, you know, sunk by the seas, by the waves, you know, over 12,000 years ago, it's suggested that it's in that general area of the hearts of Morocco. You know, Plato said that Atlantis used to lie beyond the Straits of Gibraltar.

So that that part of the Atlantic Ocean is hypothesized to have been where, you know, that that maybe could have been. And so that's why I picked Canary Islands, because I was trying to make it to something very ancient.

Michael Herst
00:35:45

That's pretty cool. Actually, I have not heard that before in regard to Atlantis possibly being done in that arena. Hopefully one day they'll actually find Atlantis.

I think that would be. Whoever is. Would be famous. I mean, undoubtedly being able to locate Atlantis would be a wonderful opportunity.

Ali Kaden
00:36:08

I think they're going to. And one thing that I think is fascinating is Gobekli Tepe. And that needs to show up in one of my future books. It's. If you haven't seen it, it's a.

It's a megalithic, ancient megalithic site in Turkey, and It's dated to 12,000 years ago.

Michael Herst
00:36:25

I actually think I have.

Ali Kaden
00:36:26

Yeah. It's three times older than the supposed building date of the pyramids.

And we, you know, modern civilization sort of says that civilization started 6,000 years ago in Sumer and then 5,000 years ago in Egypt, and then, you know, Greece, Rome, you know, Greeks, Romans, blah, blah, blah. We know the rest.

But here's a temple that was built 12,000 years ago with huge megalithic blocks and, you know, intricate carvings, and they're all astronomically aligned, and it shows these people were very sophisticated and had, you know, had culture and had science and had architecture.

And so the idea that there are lost civilizations that existed long before the established timeline of human civilization that we currently know is very plausible. You know, and I'm. I love watching all the new discoveries because they're dating things much older than, you know, there's one guy that talks about.

There are a bunch of scientists that talk about the Sphinx. If you look at the Sphinx in Egypt, there's evidence of water erosion on the base of the Sphinx.

And if you look back at the geological record, there was no time in Egypt where there would have been enough rainfall to create that erosion pattern, except during this one period that was, I guess, 12,000, you know, years ago or approximately somewhere in there.

And so they're saying, hey, this structure might have been here a lot longer than historians are saying, like these structures maybe were improved, but they were there a lot longer than people think.

Michael Herst
00:38:08

You know, I'm enjoying. I agree with you. And it's interesting because we watch. One of my favorite shows is Expedition Unknown with Josh Gates.

And he travels the world and shows us things that we didn't think were possible before. And he's been on a couple of.

A couple of the episodes, a few of the episodes, more than a couple, where they have found and located societies and temples and buildings that date back like that, six previous to 6,000 years that they've just found and that they're exploring by using lidar and some other technological advances. So I'm excited for those kind of finds. I think that. I think in my other life, I probably would have been an archaeologist. But, yeah, I'm enjoying.

I'm enjoying what they're finding now. Are you going to. Are you going to. You have any plans for any new books or new novels that might implement Some of the new discoveries.

Ali Kaden
00:39:12

Yes, that's, that's the plan actually is. I also wish, you know, might have been an archaeologist in a different life.

But so the new, the new series has a Middle Eastern character named Emir Zayn. So I am picking a character that's a little bit closer to home and because I want to be able to write a little bit faster and be more plot driven.

So the first book I have that's coming out soon is his origin story as a teenager.

But the next one, which should be book one in the new series, he's, he's communing with a guru sort of telepathically and in a certain part of the book and that.

So it plays up spirituality and that, that experience that sort of, you know, changes his life trajectory, puts him on a path where he starts to investigate some of these ancient sites. And I want that site, Gobekli Tepe in Turkey to be one of the locations that, that is visited in book three of that series.

No, sorry, book two of that series, that's.

Michael Herst
00:40:20

And you're playing on three book series with that one as well.

Ali Kaden
00:40:23

I'm actually planning on longer, I'm planning on keeping it open ended. You know, they're, they're shorter, punchier books where very much plot driven.

So, you know, less, less romance and less sort of side tangent stories and more plot driven. And so my goal as an author now is to write this, you know, what I call esoteric fiction.

And it's kind of like an Indiana Jones meets Da Vinci Code meets Celestine Prophecy where it's a little bit more modern spirituality, but the same type of adventure.

Michael Herst
00:41:00

It sounds very interesting. So you're obviously sticking with the same theme, the same themes that you've currently writing with.

Ali Kaden
00:41:09

For the most part, I think the spirituality is going to be a little bit more, less paranormal and more ancient mystical, but, but sort of like evolution.

Michael Herst
00:41:21

I mean we all evolve as we go, then grow with what we've learned and how we can implement our connection with our audience, however it happens to be. So yes, I think that's a pretty cool opportunity for you in regard to writing this series. The first one, this three book series.

How long did it take, you may ask?

Ali Kaden
00:41:43

Two years, I think.

Michael Herst
00:41:44

The whole process, the long process. But it's all three. I mean, one at a time. You didn't do them all at once.

You plan them, I'm assuming that you plan them out 1, 2 and 3 and then finish 1.

Ali Kaden
00:41:58

I wrote 1 and 2 and then wrote another book and then three so I guess, I guess that's. There was another book in there too.

Michael Herst
00:42:05

That's a lot of writing, brother. That's a.

Ali Kaden
00:42:10

Well, Stephen King, you know, in his book he says write a thousand. He's like, I just write. I mean he's prolific, right. He has, you know, hundreds of novels.

I don't know how many he has, but he just says write a thousand words a day and three months you'll have a 90,000 page book, you know. Yeah. And so when he. 90,000 word books. All right. So when he said that, it normalized it.

It's like, oh, this huge, you know, telephone directory novel that, that I'm picturing in my mind is just three months of writing every day. That's not.

Michael Herst
00:42:40

That's pretty cool. So I, I'm guessing Stephen King. I know that Stephen King's your writing hero. Do you have any others that, that you look up to?

Ali Kaden
00:42:53

I really love Rabindranath Tagore. He's a Bengali author, you know, who wrote in 1948, 1947, I believe in that time was very instrumental in the independence movement in India.

I like the Egyptian author Nagib Mahfouz. You know, a lot of his stuff has been translated. Yeah. And there were a lot of Indian authors in English that I, that I really, really enjoyed.

But it's funny, when it comes to modern literature, I don't read a whole bunch of thrillers. I'm actually not a reader in the category that I'm writing in necessarily.

Probably more into films when it comes to that, you know, watching the, all the fantasy stuff that comes out and you know, and superhero stuff I used to be into as well.

Michael Herst
00:43:42

That's. Yeah, my, I'm the same. I think that more of a visual individual.

As a child, my escape was movies and sneaking off to the movies and you know, involving myself in that story from those perspectives and it's always stuck with me. So sometimes I sit down and, and have written short stories, but I've never written a novel.

And I'm writing non fiction books but not published yet, but I will be soon. But it's always been fascinating to me how, you know, I know I don't know Stephen King personally, although we did have lunch adjacent to him.

One day we were visiting Aspen, Colorado and we went into a restaurant and at the table next to us was Stephen King and he had three other people. I think there were family members with him there and you know, we just admired from afar.

I didn't want to interrupt his lunch, but we can always say we had lunch with Stephen King adjacent.

Ali Kaden
00:44:48

Cool.

Michael Herst
00:44:48

So, yeah, it was pretty slick.

But, yeah, it's a journey in creating what you've created and creating the words that you've put onto paper which evolve into a world that others can visualize as they read and carry them forward and bring them into the story. So I think that's a really great opportunity that you're presenting to individuals to escape into your world. So thank you for doing that.

If somebody wanted to get in touch with you and find your books like the one shown here, how can they reach you, please?

Ali Kaden
00:45:31

I write under the pen name Ali Kaden. Published on Amazon, on Barnes and Nobles, Kobu, Google Play. You could also go to my website, alikes.com with links to everything that I'm doing.

I write articles. I started a podcast with a friend. I have a bunch of links for people to explore, and I'll make sure.

Michael Herst
00:45:53

That all that is in the show notes an easy way to get connected with you. So that'll be just a click away, basically. Ali, thank you very much for sharing your journey with us. I really appreciate it.

Your introspect, your creative process, and how you've been able to develop and present these worlds to us. I appreciate it.

Ali Kaden
00:46:17

Well, thank you, Michael. It was awesome talking to you and thank you for doing this and interviewing so many people and sharing all these unique perspectives with the world.

I appreciate what you do.

Michael Herst
00:46:26

Thank you very much. You'll have to come back on when you get your next three done. We'll have to bring you back. We'll talk about those two.

Hopefully I'll be breathing better by then.

Ali Kaden
00:46:34

You will be, yeah, for sure.

Michael Herst
00:46:37

So, anyway, I'll make sure that I have everything in the show notes for everyone so that you have an easy access to Ali's books and to everything else that he's creating, including his podcast. And this is one more thing before you go, Ali. So is there any words of wisdom you can give to any new up and coming writers?

Ali Kaden
00:46:57

Yeah. Follow your heart. You know, don't. If.

If there's a desire in your heart to do something artistic, if it doesn't make sense, if it doesn't seem like it's going to make money, if you feel like somebody's going to make fun of you, but it's really just a sincere desire in your heart, trust that it will not lead you astray, it's better than the most probably practical advice anyone could ever give you.

Michael Herst
00:47:20

Brilliant words of wisdom. Brilliant words of wisdom. Again, Ali, thank you very much for joining us. I really appreciate it. One More Thing before you all go.

Have a great day, have a great week, and thanks for being part of our community.

Ali Kaden
00:47:36

Thanks for listening to this episode of One More Thing.

Before you go, check out our website@beforeyougopodcast.com you can find us at as well as subscribe to the program and rate us on your favorite podcast listening platform.