The Power of Perseverance: Overcoming Adversity

Have you ever faced a challenge that seemed insurmountable? What would motivate you to keep pushing forward when things get tough?We're going to answer these questions and more when we have a conversation with an inspiring guest whose story is one of resilience, determination, and triumph over adversity. I'm your host, Michael Hurst. Welcome to one more thing before you go.My guest today, Ken Kunkin's journey began in 1970 when he broke his neck playing football for Cornell University. It left him almost totally paralyzed from his shoulders down.Despite this life altering injury, Ken returned to Cornell to complete his undergraduate degree in engineering. He didn't stop there.He went on to earn a Master of Arts degree in Education from Cornell and a Master's of education in Psychology from Columbia University.He became a nationally certified rehabilitation counselor and worked at Abilities Incorporated, voc, vocational and placement counseling to severely disabled individuals. But he didn't stop there as well.Ken enrolled in Hofstra University School of Law and he worked for over 40 years as a Nassau County Assistant District Attorney, eventually becoming a Deputy Bureau chief. His memoir, I Dream of Things that Never Were the Ken Kanken Story, was published in 2023. It chronicles his incredible journey.Today we'll explore Ken's story, exploring his motivations, his challenges and, and his triumphs. And I am honored to have you on the show, Ken.

Thank you, Michael. And thank you for having me as your guest.

You know, it is again, an amazing journey that you have been on because a lot of people would have given up even before it got started.But I, I appreciate where you've come from and the opportunities for you to give back, especially to the community that needs it and in your law career. We talked about that a little bit ago. Working with the district attorney's office, we have just a little bit something in common.They're a brotherhood.

Right.

I like to start things at the beginning. So where'd you grow up?

I grew up in Long island in Nassau County, Long Island. And I might add, Michael, that I've had help every step of my way both before and after my injury. Just so you know a little bit about my early life.My mother died when I was less than one month old. It was in 1950 during the polio epidemic. She unfortunately caught the disease and passed away before I was one month old.So after that we moved in with my grandparents for a few years before my father remarried. So we've had help every step of the way from a very close knit family that I've been fortunate to have.

You Know, it's interesting because we had this a little bit of a conversation before we started and, you know, I understand that journey.Sometimes it is difficult for those of you out there that are into it now or just beginning your journey, it's always important to understand that, you know, you have those around you that will help you and they'll, you know, stand beside you when you need it. They'll hold your hand when you need it. They'll push you forward when you need it. They'll pull you forward when you need it.You just sometimes have to. Have to be just to look around, just to ask. And I'm happy that you had those individuals around you to bring you forward.

I was very fortunate.

I know you went to Cornell University. You said in. When I got your background and I did a little research on you, you went football. Excuse me? You played football for Cornell University.Is that what brought you there? Did you get a scholarship?

No, actually. Well, Cornell doesn't give out athletic scholarships. I went there because I was always very good in math. That was my best subject.And my high school guidance counselor said, if you're good in math, you should be an engineer. So with that advice, my brother encouraged me to apply to Cornell University. He's two years older than I am.He desperately wanted to go to Cornell and was not accepted. So he ended up going to the University of Vermont, where my father and mother both went.And at my brother's suggestion, I applied to Cornell, was admitted and decided to go there. And I just might add, I was on Cornell's lightweight football team. They also had a second team that was in a special league at the time.It was also called 150 pound football, and they were for some of the smaller players. And I was on that team. It's now called sprint football.

Well, that. That's the first time I've heard that. Actually. I played football in high school, but I guess it would be similar to when I went to high school.They had an A squad and a B squad, but they had the A squad was they played all the time. Then the B squad, we filled in, or if somebody got injured, then we popped in there, something like that.But it's great for the opportunity for, for others to get in as well. So when you were playing football, how far into your university career did you get injured?

This was during my junior year. I was 20 years old. It happened in the fourth game of the season on a play that I normally wouldn't have even been in on.It happened on a kickoff and during the first play of the game. One of our players got a concussion on the kickoff and obviously couldn't continue playing. So I was put in on that play to take his place.And we had just scored a touchdown. We were leading 16 to nothing at the time. It was still in the first quarter.And on the kickoff, I ran down the field, tackled the ball carrier, and when I did, I broke my neck and severely damaged my spinal cord, and I was instantly paralyzed.

Can you. I mean, it's got to be kind of devastating at that time. Can you. Are you okay if we talk about that journey?

Oh, absolutely.

Can you tell us the moment you realized you were paralyzed? I mean, how did that make you feel?

Well, it happened instantly. As soon as I hit the ball carry, I felt like an electric shock shooting through my body. And suddenly I lost not only all movement, but.But I lost all sensation below my shoulders. So I couldn't feel anything below my shoulders. I didn't know what the problem was.I thought maybe I had pinched a nerve and in a few seconds I'd be back up on my feet. I had never even heard of a spinal cord injury before my injury before that.

I mean, it's got to be, obviously, once you realize what was happening, I'm sure that it's got to be devastating to even think about what, what, what's next. I mean, I. I can understand to a certain extent, I can understand because what happened to me, you know, I got.As I we said earlier, and my audience knows, you know, when I got injured myself and, you know, I'm laying down my back there and then there were like a bazillion things running through my mind at that time. And, you know, one of them was obviously my family, you know, my kids. And, you know, what am I going to do?What they going to do, what's going to happen kind of a thing, you know, what, what were your next steps? What took. What happened?

Well, what happened is, you know, obviously they called for an ambulance, they put me on a stretcher, and when they were carrying me off the field, it felt as if they were just carrying my head off the field and leaving my body behind because I had no feeling below my shoulders at that point. Point felt like I had just been decapitated. But I ended up obviously going to the hospital where my uniform was cut off.X rays were taken, and they saw that my injury was so serious that particular hospital was not able to handle my situation. So I was put back in an ambulance and sent to a second hospital.I ended up spending the next nine months and 20 days in various hospitals and rehabilitation centers.

That in itself is a journey, having to get through all of that. And you know, I'm sure that what you were facing at that time was what am I going to do with the rest of my life?

Right. And you know, what was particularly depressing and demoralizing is the medical personnel just seemed hesitant to answer any of my questions.And I later got a hold of a pamphlet that the rehab center provided.And with somebody turning the pages for me, I learned that somebody with a condition such as mine, I'm hurt between the fourth and fifth cervical in the neck.The medical personnel seemed to think the best that I would ever be able to do would perhaps be someday able to sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone. I was devastated when I saw that.I mean, here I had been in my junior year studying engineering at one of the most prestigious engineering schools in the country, and now I was looking at a career, if I was lucky, it seemed like, to sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone.

Yeah, that's. I think that, you know, during that time period it, it's, I mean, obviously things have evolved a little bit since then.They've got more technology, more opportunity for us, those of us that are, that get injured, to be able to have a better understanding. And the transparency, I think is a.

Little more available that at that time there weren't even touch tone phones, they were rotary phones, which I couldn't dial. And this was certainly well before they were laptop computers.So I didn't think I could even do that job of selling magazine subscriptions over the telephone.

Yeah, because you couldn't, you couldn't dial and yeah, that, I mean, obviously that in itself I think would. It's challenging both mentally, not just physically, but it's also challenged mentally because again, what are we going to do?What am I supposed to do? How am I going to do this? How's my life going to go forward at that time, may I ask, when did, when did you meet your wife?

I met my wife almost 50 years, about 50 years after my injury. It was just under. And I had put an ad in the newspaper looking for a personal care attendant to help me on weekends.And I was fortunate that my wife responded to the ad. And I fortunately made the decision of hiring my wife to help me on weekends.Actually, it wasn't 50 years after I was hurt, it was 30 years after I was hurt. So I met my wife. I got her in 1970, I met her in 1999. So I was current almost 30 years.

At that time, even before that part. Wow. Yeah. But look where you're at now. A wonderful opportunity for you and your wife. That's pretty cool. You have kids.

Yeah. Well, that's an interesting story as well.When I met my wife, she indicated that when our relationship turned into a romantic relationship, we decided that we'd get married. And she told me she'd like to have my baby. Not just a baby, my baby. She said she wanted to see a little kanken running around our home.Now, this really seemed impossible at the time. I had been paralyzed for more than 30 years by then, and I was already in my 50s.So we researched various options, and we learned that through in vitro fertilization, it may still be possible for me to father a child. So we pursued in vitro fertilization, and through the miracle of science, Anna became pregnant.And just about 20 years ago, on January 24, 2005, I was present in the delivery room. I was present in the delivery room when my wife, Ana, gave birth to triplets. We have three incredible sons, Joseph, James, and Timothy.They're now all sophomores at three separate colleges in upstate New York.

That's amazing, actually. Congratulations and well done. Brought tears to my eyes. What an opportunity. So you were hoping for one, and you got two more bonuses.

I thought it was a miracle that we'd even have one. And suddenly we end up with triplets. I couldn't be happier. We've been so blessed.

Yeah, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool, actually. I think that the opportunity presented itself in such a unique way, and you hit the jackpot, Ken.

We sure did.

Yes, you did.

Our boys are now 20 years old, doing great.

Well, what. What motivated you to return to Cornell and complete your undergraduate degree? I mean, this.I'm probably backtracking a little bit, but if you don't mind, I. I was thinking about this earlier because you went back.I went back to school, you know, after I got all my stuff taken care of, and I realized that, you know, my journey was going to continue. I went back to university and got a bachelor's and finished my bachelor's and then got a master's degree. So what.What motivated you to return to Cornell and complete your undergraduate degree?

Well, I had a vocational counselor at the Rusk Institute where I did my rehab, who encouraged me to recognize, obviously, that due to my physical limitations, I needed to make the most of my mental abilities. So she encouraged me to go back to school. And in my mind, my attitude was I wanted to pick up my Life right where it was at the time of my injury.I was trying to do my best not to let my injury interfere with anything that I thought I would have done had I not been injured. So that meant, of course, going back to the school I was attending, and that was Cornell.What I didn't really take fully into consideration was how inaccessible Cornell was at the time. I mean, I had the added misfortune of being injured about 20 years before the Americans with Disabilities act took effect.So there was not one ramp or curb cut on the entire campus. And Cornell's on a very hilly terrain. Virtually every one of its buildings had steps.On my first day of class, I had to be either pulled up or bounced down close to 100 steps just to attend my first day.

Holy smokes. That's crazy. But you persevered, obviously, and things got you an undergraduate degree, right?

Well, I had a lot of help from my personal care attendants and my fellow classmates.And, of course, my family have been so supportive every step of the way, and they basically assured me, if need be, they'd act as my arms and legs to make sure I could do everything I wanted to do. And, boy, it got to the point where I didn't want to disappoint them.They were so helpful and so encouraging that I decided I really had to do everything I could do to make something of my life. Now, my family was not with me at Cornell at the time, certainly not my first year when I went back, but through a lot of help.In 1973, I became the first quadriplegic to ever graduate from Cornell.

That's amazing. Congratulations on that. What an achievement. I mean, obviously, to manage both the physical and the emotional challenges during all of that.I'm sure we're difficult. I mean, no way can compare my journey to yours, but I understand the challenges of. Of being in a wheelchair.There's challenges of those accessibility routes and having to require help from other individuals in getting through daily tasks and through everything that you have to do. So I admire that very much. I think that the physical, the emotional opportunities for you, that had to be a very satisfying day when you graduated.

It sure was. And, you know, I might add, during this time, I was still just going to get used to my new physical condition.I went back TO CORNELL Just 11 days after I was discharged from the hospital. So, you know, there was quite a lot of adjusting going on during that time period.And, you know, I was so worried just about going up and down all the steps to get to my classes. It was Difficult to pay attention to my lecturers once I arrived there.

Yeah, I can imagine that definitely they weren't built for individuals that have a disability in any form during that time. I'm hoping, I'm sure, that they've made changes since then for accessibility.

Very much so, yeah. I've been up there recently, and it looked like an entirely different campus. They had accessible buses running through the campus.They had active disabled students office. They had ramps to every building that needed it. Totally different campus right now.

So when you got out, when you graduated, I know that you pursued a career in rehabilitative counseling. Did you go there first or did you go back to in.

No. What happened? While I was at Cornell, I think it really became clear.Even though I graduated with a degree in engineering, engineering really didn't seem like a viable field for me. I mean, this was well before there were laptop computers, and it was really difficult for me to function as an engineer.But I had a psychology professor at Cornell who took an interest in me, and he encouraged me to pursue a career in psychology and as a counselor.So with that advice, I decided to stay on at Cornell, and I earned my master's degree, where I majored in counseling and student personnel administration. And I became the first quadriplegic to earn a graduate degree from Cornell as well.And then to increase my counseling credentials, I went to Columbia University, where I obtained my second master's degree. This one was in psychological counseling and rehabilitation.And now with 2 degrees from Cornell and one from Columbia, I decided to look for a job in the rehabilitation counseling field. And I felt fairly confident that I should be able to get a good job doing that type of work well.I looked for a job for a year and sent out more than 200 resumes. It seemed in the mid-70s, everyone felt I was just too disabled to work.Finally, I found one organization willing to give me the opportunity to show what I could do.And that organization was Abilities Incorporated, which is part of what's now called the Viscardi center, and they're located on Long Island, New York, where I was hired to work as vocational rehabilitation counselor for other individuals who had severe disabilities.

You know what it.Unfortunately, I think that at least back then, fortunately and unfortunately, fortunately, you were able to find someone that believed in you and that was able to recognize that you are more than just an individual that's in a wheelchair, an individual that is disabled, an individual that needed an opportunity.They saw something within you that allowed you to be able to inspire others and motivate others and Let them know that they are not alone and that they have the opportunity to expand their own selves, their own needs, their own abilities to go out and do the same thing that you just did. Because obviously you took something that was completely at the opposite end of triumph. You took tragedy and turned it into triumph.And you did it in such a way that it allows you to motivate and inspire other individuals with that.

Thank you. I was fortunate that the founder of the Viscardi Center, Dr. Henry Viscardi Jr. Had a disability himself.He was basically born without legs and walked on prosthetic legs. And he dedicated his life to. To helping other people with disabilities get the proper schooling as well as to get employment.So his facility was geared towards helping people with disabilities find employment. I was very fortunate.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Contact with him and be hired there.

Yeah, that's very cool. What got you into. What got you into law?

That's an interesting story as well. You know, my job duties at the center were expanding the longer I was there.And one of the things that they had me do was to go out and speak before groups and organizations concerning affirmative action and non discrimination for people with disabilities. And often after my talks, I would be asked questions.And while I'd certainly do my best to answer those questions, I was always very careful to caution. The question is they should really speak with a lawyer about their concerns.And I guess it didn't take long before I started to think, you know, there's no reason why I couldn't become that lawyer. So I left the center to go to law school. And in fact, my older brother Stephen at the time was a lawyer.He was working as a defense attorney for the public defender's office. And while I was in law school, Steve suggested that I do an internship at the district attorney's office. And it was a great suggestion.And after my second year of law school, I did an internship at the district attorney's office. And not only did I enjoy the experience, I fell in love with the office.And I found a new way that I could help people and serve the community as a whole. So when I graduated, I applied for a full time position with them.

Very cool, very cool.Now, you know, the question always begs, your brother was a defense attorney and you were prosecuting, you know, the prosecuting side of it from the district attorney. Do you guys ever meet up?

You know, we saw each other in court a lot, but, you know, we certainly made an agreement we would never have a trial against each other. And, you know, it probably would have had the appearance of impropriety. So I always had somebody else in the office handle his case.I might add that his wife was a judge. So here we had a defense attorney, a DA and a judge in the family.

Family affair. Family affair. I might do it just to. Just to dig my brother. I won, bro. That's kind of cool, actually. What kind of challenges did you come up with?Did you in the courtroom? Since you mentioned that you met up sometimes in the courthouse, do you have any challenges in the courtroom, being in a courtroom?

Oh, goodness, just about everything that I did there was a challenge. And let me start by telling you that I was able to complete law school in the standard three year time period.I passed the difficult New York State bar exam the first time that I took it.And I began my employment by participating in a very intensive four week training program where they taught us all aspects of trial techniques from a prosecutor's perspective. And I was so proud to go to court my first day and I couldn't fit through the swinging doorways in the courtroom.Oh, no, it was too narrow to allow me to get through with my electric wheelchair to the prosecutor's table. So you mentioned that I face any challenges from day one.I was, my first assignment was to our traffic court bureau, which was located on the second floor of a neighboring building. And I was promoted after just three days because the elevator was broken and they didn't know when it would be fixed.In fact, my first day there, I had to have the judge help carry me in my wheelchair down the steps, which was so horrific.But, you know, eventually when I got to our district court bureau and I started doing trials, not long after I did it, which was real challenging just to get into the courtroom. And I couldn't even approach the bench when I needed to. The judge usually had to come off the bench oftentimes to speak with me.But when I started doing trials, I was told not long after that by a defense attorney that he was approached by some of the prisoners in the pens behind the courtroom who told them that I was a really tough ADA and they hope they didn't get the guy in the wheelchair as their prosecutor. So I was fortunate, but I had to rely a lot on my memory. You know, I did most of my work, most of my trial work through memory.You know, I would deliver my summation.

That's a task in itself.

Yeah, yeah. I didn't have any notes in front of me when I was doing my summations.

Yeah, that's, that's A task. I mean, understanding. I've been in the court thousands of times during my career, and that's definitely a very. Yeah, that in itself is a task.So well done. Well done, Ken. Yeah, that's pretty cool. When you get a reputation like that from the bad guys and say, I don't want that guy. We don't want that guy.You have a particularly challenging case. Just. I gotta ask this just because we have that connection just a little bit, do you have, like, a particularly challenging case you had to work on?

Well, I had a lot of challenging cases over my career. I tried 76 trials, 65 of which were felonies. I did 118 pretrial hearings, and I presented 252 cases to the grand jury.But let me tell you the aftermath of one of my trials. I tried an individual who had previously been convicted of a felony.He was, you know, somebody who'd been in trouble a lot in the past and had a violent background. And during my trial, he was convicted of a class D felony in New York, but he remained out of jail pending sentence.And when the sentence day came about, as I got in the elevator to take the elevator down to the courtroom, suddenly he got in the elevator with me. And now we're alone in the elevator, just he and I, and, you know, there's nothing I could do. I'm virtually totally paralyzed.And he says to me as we're riding down the elevator, I have a proposition for you. If you don't send me to jail, I'll agree to work as your personal care attendant for a year. I couldn't believe it.I wonder how many of my personal care attendants felt working for me for a year would be the equivalent of going to jail for a few years.Well, fortunately, the elevator door opened right around then, and I politely turned down his request, went to the courtroom, and he was sentenced to two to four years upstate.

That's really interesting the way he tried to negotiate his own plea bargain with regard to, yeah, I'll take care of you for how long?

Well, you know, when you talk about challenges, I had a lot of health challenges as well, because, you know, I constantly was getting sick with bronchitis or other respiratory infections or had problems with. With bed sores. And, you know, it was a challenge to be able to, you know, maintain my caseload.Caseload, you know, keep up to date on the law and everything involved, and, you know, deal with my health issues as well. But I was fortunate.

How did you become a bureau chief?

Well, I was fortunate. I did A lot of trials. And I was promoted to our county court trial bureau before most of my colleagues.And there the number of trials, pretrial hearings, and grand jury presentations I was doing each year were consistently among the highest in my bureau.So the district attorney, his name was Dennis Dillon at the time, was a very progressive, forward thinking district attorney, who, I might add, based his hiring decision on my abilities rather than my disability, which is admirable, and heard the work I was doing.And he promoted me a number of times until I became one of the deputy bureau chiefs of our county court trial bureau, where I was helping Supervise more than 25 other assistant district attorneys.

That's a far cry from sitting in front of a telephone selling magazine subscriptions.

Absolutely. And if I might just tell you a little further back. In May of 1997, I went down to Washington, D.C.where I was admitted to practice law before the United States Supreme Court.And while I was sitting before all nine Supreme Court justices, I was struck by the irony that the next day, the next day in May, May 20, I was asked to be one of the speakers at the Rusk Institute to help celebrate their 50th anniversary. Now, the Rusk Institute was the rehab facility I had been a patient at 26 years earlier.That was the facility that seemed to think the best I would ever be able to do would be to sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone.And here I was sitting before the United States Supreme Court and I couldn't wait to go to Rusk the next day and tell them about what I've been doing with my life.

Yeah, it's like. Yeah, here I just, let me, let me phrase where I've just come from. I've just come from the Supreme Court. Yeah. Thank you very much. That's pretty cool.Actually. I think that. What an amazing journey in overcoming so many obstacles and continuing to motivate yourself in order to inspire and motivate others.And, you know, the fact that the mere fact that you were told that the best you could do was to sell magazine subscriptions, and it takes a lot to get you approved to go in front of the Supreme Court, United States Supreme Court, just any Supreme Court, but the US Supreme Court. So to go from that to that in itself is a lifetime achievement. That's amazing. On top of triplets, man. Triplets. Not just one, but triplets.Yeah, it's, it's very cool. How do you balance? I mean, you're still working.

You know, I retired earlier. Well, last year from, you know, I retired full time. Were in 2016. But then I continued to work part time for the next eight years.And last year, I actually retired full time and spent more time now working on my book and promoting the book that I wrote.

Was it hard to balance your. The career in being a husband and a father?

You know, it was difficult. But I fortunately have an incorporation. Incredible wife. Her name is Anna, and she is incredible.To raise three triplets and take care of me at the same time and help me write my book and do everything else that she needed to do to, you know, keep our household going. I was very fortunate, I might just add. I'd like to tell you how I came up with the title of my book.

Absolutely, yeah.

While I was still a patient in the rehab facility, I was invited to testify before a United States health subcommittee chaired by Senator Edward Kennedy.And eight days after my testimony, Senator Kennedy sent me a glass paperweight in the mail that had an inscription on it that the senator said his late brother, Robert Kennedy liked very much. And the words on that inscription have always been very meaningful to me. The inscription read, some men see things as they are and say, why?I dream of things that never were and say, why not? That's where I got the title of my book, I Dream of Things that never Were. The Ken Kunkin Story.

That's very cool, actually. What an amazing quote, and what an amazing thing to get that from a Kennedy to be recognized for your accomplishments and what you've done.That's pretty slick. Had you ever thought about being an author before? Did that come about?

Never. Never in my wildest dreams.You know, one of the reasons why I pursued a career in engineering, you know, engineers, we were known for our math ability, not so much for our English. So the thought of ever being a writer and a published author never occurred to me.But when I was first hurt in the rehab center, a friend of my aunt's thought that it would be good for me to help get over the severe depression I was in at the time, to talk about what I was going through and to be able to inform other individuals what it was like to have a spinal cord injury and go through rehab. So he suggested that I write a book, and he would help me with it.And he used to come to the rehab center once a week while I was there for me to talk to him. And he would take down dictation. And then I went back to school. So, of course, we stopped it, and then we'd start again and stop again.And this was more than 50 years ago. And, you know, every so often I'd pick up the book and try and write a little more, and I tried to do it by a tape recorder, and I wasn't able to.To do that well. And eventually after my triplets were born, my wife suggested that we really should sit down together when we had the opportunity and finish my book.So, you know, when we had spare time, which was not often, we would sit together and I would dictate to her and she would type on her laptop computer. And eventually when I retired full time, it gave us more opportunity to work on the book.So my book was started more than 50 years ago and finally published.

Well, thank you, Anna.

Right.

In more ways than one, actually. Yes. The love of our lives, obviously, are an amazing thing within itself.My wife and I have about 35 and a half years together, and, you know, between that and our kids, too, I am eternally grateful for all three of them and helping me through everything that I've been through. So the importance of family and the importance of those that love you around you, to help you through things and to be there is immeasurable.Can't put it into words of how much it means to people like us that need assistance and. And need help. And, you know, I'm grateful every day that my wife, because I'm still have. I still have issues where I can't do certain things.And, you know, my wife still gets me dressed and she still combs my hair and. Looks good, too, doesn't it? See? Looks great. So, you know, she couldn't. She could just mess it all up and then go, there you go. But.So, yes, I'm grateful for that. Well, let's talk a little bit about your book. It you. So it's 50 years in the making, and it's basically your life story. So it's a lot.Some of what we've spoken about here.What else can somebody find within that book to help them, to inspire them, to motivate them to understand that you're not alone and that you do have hope. And, you know, there is one more thing.

Thank you. Well, you know, when I was first injured, I didn't know of any other role models that I could look to for hope or motivation or inspiration.They might have been out there at the time, but I just didn't know about them. And during the course of my life following my injury, I was asked to speak at a number of different events and before a lot of different groups.And I was often told that what I've done with my life has inspired and motivated people, people to do more with their lives. So I was encouraged to actually write this book as a way of reaching more people to hopefully inspire and motivate them to do more with their lives.And as a result, you know, I decided to go into a lot of detail about what I went through, the highs and the lows, and say exactly what I went through and how depressed I was and how I was able to overcome that depression and do what I did. And in fact, one of my colleagues later got in touch with me and told me that he actually had a brother who had a disability similar to mine.And he was always hesitant to ask him any questions about his. His brother unfortunately died many years ago.And he said after reading my book, he learned an awful lot about what his brother must have gone through and he felt it benefited him to know more about what it's like to have a disability such as mine.But I've been encouraged that not only a person with a disability will hopefully benefit by it, but family members of the person and caregivers of the person, as well as athletes. I've spoken before athletes and corporations and, you know, business leaders and unions, employers.I've spoken before so many different groups who told me that they found it helpful, inspiring and motivating to hear more about my story.And that's why I'm hoping that by writing my book, which is out also as a Kindle version and now out as an audio version, as an audio book, could reach more people, and particularly I hope it reaches people in the medical profession to show them what it feels like to be a patient and be the recipient of medical care and what you're thinking about at the time and how the fact that the way they deal with you makes such an impression and such a difference in your life and how you feel on a day to day basis, I think it's.

An amazing opportunity for somebody to be able to be educated as well as inspired and motivated. Because your journey in itself is something that you've.I mean, you look at many times you went back to school, look at the accomplishments that you've been able to make in spite of.And the reality is, again, and this is, I know I keep repeating it, but from being told that all you can do is sell magazine subscriptions at home on the phone, to sitting in front of the Supreme Court of the United States is something that is an outstanding, brilliant display of fortitude and perseverance and being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel and to understand hope and joy and Love all in one encompassing circle. So I think everybody should take a look at this book.Yeah, I'll put a link in the show notes to make sure and if you were looking for it, you can go to www.kenkonkin.com and you'll be able to find a little bit more about Ken, his journey and how to get there and how to buy the book, which I'm assuming is available on Amazon and, and right. It is, you know, other platforms.So yeah, I, I really appreciate what you've done in your journey that you've, that you've come through and you know, you, those individuals that have been faced with what you were faced with, what I was faced with, I mean, I'm sure again my journey in a way compares to, to yours completely. But I did spend four years in a wheelchair. We're supposed to be there for the rest of my life.You know, you get depressed, you get angry, you get resentful, you get, you know, there's a gamut of loss and despair and you know, a multitude of emotional as well as physical things that run through our minds consistently and your worth, your self worth, your self esteem and so forth. And you've overcome all of that and shown individuals that you have the opportunity to move forward in life in spite of. And I appreciate that.

I might add that, you know, one of the things that helped me a lot was when I was finally given the opportunity to work at the Viscotti Center, I now had the opportunity to help others and that did wonders for my feelings of self worth and self esteem and self. And I was fortunate during my life to have a supportive family and friends who's helped me. Their help has helped me every step of the way.And now it's so important to find and be able to do everything you can do to help others in their journey. And we all have a lot we can do to not only make our lives better, but the lives of those around us better as well. And that's so important.

I agree with that. Ken, thank you very much for sharing your journey with me. Thank you for being here.Thank you for accomplishing what you have accomplished and what you've given back to the world. I'm grateful and I know that there are thousands of others that are grateful as well. Thank you for your career in law as well.

Thank you, Michael. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share my story.

We're going to share it worldwide, my friend. Share it worldwide. This is one more thing before you go though. So before we go, do you have any words of wisdom you can share?

Well, a few things. One, don't set limited expectations for people because your expectations can have a profound effect on what others eventually accomplish.Because people's performance often rises and falls based upon what others expect of them. So it's so important to keep your expectations high. And in addition, I would like to say it's so important to participate.Don't just sit back on the sidelines waiting for something to happen. Good things come to you when you work for them, and it's only when you're actively involved that you have control over the outcome.And lastly, I'd like to say just because something has not been done before doesn't mean you cannot do it now.

Brilliant work. Words of wisdom, Ken. Brilliant words of wisdom. Thank you for sharing those.And again, thank you very much to Anna, your wife, for being with you all this time and for connecting us. I'm grateful, Anna, for you bringing Ken to us. But Ken, thank you very much for being here.I would love to reach out to you later in this year and we'll have another conversation.

That would be great. I'd look forward to it. Michael, thank you.

Fantastic. So for everyone else out there, one more thing before you all go. I hope that you have a wonderful day, a great week, and thank you for being here.Thanks for listening to this episode of One More Thing before youe Go.Check out our website@beforeyougopodcast.com youm can find us as well as subscribe to the program and rate us on your favorite podcast listening platform.