Magic Isn't Just for Christmas: Manifesting for the New Year

Hey, one more thing before you go. Do you believe in magic? You have to when it comes to Christmas and the miracles that take place during this time.

But you can find magic in your life each and every day, not just during the holidays. So today, our special Sunday Spotlight.

We're reflecting back on one of our favorite episodes from the past, focusing on helping you find your magic not only for Christmas, but in life and to start manifesting what you would like in your life for the new year. I'm your host, Michael Hurst. Welcome to one more thing before you go.

In this episode we learned how a woman went from a type A corporate banker to discovering there was more to living than making money.

To helping human beings find clarity, focus and inspiration so that they can easily manifest their dreams into reality and teach them how to create a space for magic in their lives.

If you want to learn what manifestation really is and how it can move your life forward in a very positive way, if you want to learn the secrets to connecting with the universe and to commit and connect to that universe 100%, stay tuned. Go that thing about creating a space for magic, the art of manifestation. My guest in this episode is Patti Lennon.

She's a best selling author, a keynote speaker and a founder of Receiving School. She's the former type A corporate banker, can relate to that. I'm a former type A myself that discovers there was more to living than making money.

She left banking to help others do the same. She's a certified coach with a master's in psychology.

Her unique specialty blends brain science and metaphysics to help her fellow humans find clarity, focus and inspiration so they can easily manifest their dreams into reality. I wholeheartedly believe in this, so I'm looking forward to this conversation. She has been featured in Forbes, Fast Company and Daily.

She's also the host of Space for Magic podcast. And today we're going to learn how to create space for magic in your life. Welcome to the show, Patty.

Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

Yeah, it's been a journey for you and I getting here. We had a few little mercury and retrograde guest. We'll say yes we did. Yes we did. But we're here now. So let's talk about you.

So learn a bit more about you. Where'd you grow up?

I grew up in New Rochelle, New York, which is a suburb outside New York City.

And you still live up in that area or you.

I mean compared to the rest of the world, I'm probably in that area. I'm in Connecticut. So I'm a little bit further away from New York City. Before I had kids, we were here where I live, and it was kind of dull.

But now that I have kids, I love where I live.

This works? Oh, yeah. You know, I've never, I. I've visited probably 40 of the. Of the states. I've never been to Connecticut yet.

So what was your family like growing up?

We were a traditional Irish Catholic family, staunch Republicans, conservatives. I fell right in line with that and was like most young type A's. I thrived in rules and structure and I loved people pleasing.

So strict Irish Catholic structure worked for me. I went to school in Catholic school and did all the things.

You have any brothers and sisters?

I do. I have a brother and a sister. Very different people.

My sister was the opposite of whatever, you know, happens to someone who's not born a natural conservative Republican. That's who she was. And she, she, you know, kind of railed against the systems as much as I thrived in them.

And my brother, who's the baby who grew up to be a professional Santa, by the way, he's Boston Santa. He. Yeah, he is held probably. I think the number is like 150 jobs, something like that. He is a. He goes to the beat of his own drum and. Yeah, just.

Yeah.

So your kids have an inside track to Santa when it comes to Christmas time?

They do, yeah.

Kind of a direct line, so to speak. So you have a master's degree in psychology. Where'd you go to school? Where'd you go to university?

So when I was in undergraduate, I went to a state school, Binghamton, upstate New York. And then when I got my master's, which was much later, I was already in banking, I went to a small university in Westchester called Pace.

What got you interested in psychology?

So when I was in banking, and this was part of my transition, I think, to the place I'm in now where I was very type A and rule oriented.

I suddenly remembered that when I was young in life, I really thought I was placed here to teach people that God loved them, you know, and my word for God has since changed and expanded, but that was my context. And then around 28, I sort of woke up and realized, oh, wait, am I doing God's work here in the bank? And I don't think I am.

And I sought the counsel of a colleague who was very spiritual, very religious, who I had a lot of respect for. And I was asking her, you know, what her take on that was. And she just told me that, you know, to really look at.

Maybe God put me in the bank, you know, that maybe this wasn't a mistake. And if God put me there, what would that mean? And I didn't really understand what she was telling me.

I was still so young in maturity and spiritual maturity, and I asked her to help me understand that. And she said, when you're in the room, people are nicer to each other.

Patty, when you go, when there's a conference going on, like a big conference room meeting, people are nicer to each other. And how do you know that that's not God working through you?

And so then I start to go out over the coming weeks and months just watching myself through that lens.

And I realized that succeeding had been fairly easy for me because I didn't have a lot of attachment to succeeding as much as to building relationships and people liking me in a really dysfunctional way, by the way, I was like, super people pleaser. But then I really got committed to helping my colleagues understand how to succeed, how they could move their careers forward.

And then I started mentoring people. And the more I did that, the more I realized that people's brains didn't work the way mine did, and I wanted to understand it better.

And in my best sales job ever, I convinced my senior manager to pay for my master's in psychology so I could be a better salesperson.

That's a testament. Yeah, that's definitely a testament to that. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Actually. It's. It's. I have a master's degree myself. It's a journey.

So I understand that mine's in digital media and performance, which is kind of more along the lines of this far cry from being a street cop for my career before that. So it. Once I retired, I needed a new kind of direction myself, and that's the direction I went. Went back to school.

I was the oldest guy in my class, actually, which had its advantages and disadvantages. Everybody. Everybody kind of thought, do we. Do we include the old guy or do we offend the old guy? Yeah.

And I would imagine in this place, like in digital communications, that's a much more. I don't know, I would say young degree. You know, in the psychology world, there were people entering that world at all ages and stages. But yeah, I.

Even in mine, though, I was. I was on the old side, even at 30.

So, hey, you know, like, life puts you where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there. I believe in that. It's whatever at time, you are there at the time you're supposed to be. I think that we kind of map that out.

We just kind of touch on that, if you don't mind. So at what point in your life did you kind of change direction and understand that you could bring a certain type of magic into it?

It was definitely after my kids came, the balance of what I was able to do in creating success tipped. So I mentioned earlier I had a dysfunctional relationship to people pleasing.

But when there was really only a core group of people to please and nobody really relying on me as a caretaker, that balance was pretty easy to navigate. I'm a neurotypical person, and I say that only because I think there's so many non neurotypical people who don't thrive in structure easily.

I did as a people pleaser. It was just super easy.

But as soon as my kids came in and I was trying to be a great mom and a great wife and this corporate star, the balance toppled. And I really. The thing that had defined me, which was thriving and striving, was no longer working.

And as I started to realize how desperately unhappy I was having, quote, unquote, everything, you know, that people would want a successful career at that point, I had two small children that were both healthy. My husband and I were in love.

Although we were sort of running our family like two partners in a business, passing, you know, ships passing, in the midst of having, quote, unquote, everything, I suddenly realized I was desperately unhappy. And I thought I was the crappiest mom ever to not be able to appreciate the life I had.

And it was sort of that journey at that point of that realization that made me realize that I was being called elsewhere. And that led me to look at coaching as a career.

And as I did my coaching certification, which requires a lot of inner work, that's where I started to understand that my calling was really not to help people grow successful in their careers, but to really get underneath the things that leaves us feeling like we're not enough, even when we're doing our best.

Yeah, that's a very positive thing. I think in today's society, we get caught up in life, basically.

And sometimes getting caught up in life, you don't have the opportunity to take a breath and say, is this what I really want to be? Is this where I really want to be? And this. Is this how I really want to be?

So it was kind of unique that you were able to take that moment and kind of realize all of that. When did you start understanding manifestation and how that works?

So right around that Same time that I had had that spiritual breakthrough, I had stopped going to mass and really seeing myself as a practicing Catholic.

So I started seeking out connection to the divine in a way that, like, felt like it made sense to me in this new sort of paradigm that I was living in. And so I was finding just book after book. And that led me to Law of Attraction teachings. And I was just, I was consuming everything.

And that journey through getting my master's in psychology, at the same time, I was realizing I was unhappy. I had both my kids going through my masters. It was like a two to three year journey of just consuming.

And then honestly, I didn't really feel like I needed manifestation until it all started to fall apart, you know, and then I started working with it and I could see where things had manifested because I believed in them in my past, you know, journey without understanding all of it.

But then as I got further into the world of personal development and I had already started my business, I also started to see the dark side of Law of Attraction and the way it was taught, that there was a lot of myths to it, and it was taught in this very dysfunctional, ego driven way. And that years after that original point where I started coaching, my mom got cancer and ultimately died.

And my journey through her cancer treatments and death was really where I started to get underneath. Who is available? Like, what is the force that's available? What is the force behind manifestation?

And if it loves us, would it really expect what the traditional Law of Attraction teachings teach us? And my conclusion was some of them yes, but many of them no.

Yeah, I find it. My wife and I got an interest in the Laws of Attraction when it first came out.

And, you know, we watched the video, we bought the book, we kind of practiced in regard to that. Some of it was complicated. Some of it, as you said just a few minutes ago, we felt was more monetarily driven than it was spiritually driven.

Or we've evolved from that 100%. We've evolved from the original laws of attracting.

In fact, I should have looked this up, but years ago, till now, we've learned so much about manifestation and how it works and how it plays an important part into our life and in every aspect of our life, if done correctly.

Yes.

And I think for someone like you, I would expect, although I haven't had this experience myself, you know, when you're gifted a physical limitation that requires healing, it's. And I say gift.

It just from the perspective of when your higher self decides with the divine that this is the journey you're going to take, not the human you, because the human you, I'm sure, felt incredibly resentful of it.

Yep, it's.

You've shown up as a teacher. Right. And so you're the healed wounded that's here to teach.

And I think understanding that dark world into the light of that attraction would be critical for you to fulfill your promise to humanity.

And actually, I appreciate that outlook on that because basically, you got it spot on.

Reality is that in the beginning, I was angry, I was resentful, I was depressed, I was taken from a career that I was thriving in, and it was suddenly just yanked out from underneath me.

All my colleagues, my people I worked beside, people that worked underneath me went on to be captains and lieutenants, captains, assistant chiefs, chiefs, sheriffs, and I'm stuck here in this wheelchair. So, yeah, for a long time I was angry and I was mad until I finally started looking at it from another's perspective.

And to be honest with you, I'll share this. I've shared it before. I have a wonderful family. My wife, my daughters. My wife and I, 32, over 32 years.

We just celebrated our 32 wedding anniversary this month. And I've got great kids, and they were all very supportive through this whole journey in regard to that.

My oldest daughter was going to get married, and I said, yeah, we're going to pay for your wedding. We're going to get what you want, we're going to do the big thing, et cetera. I said, but what do you want? And I still get emotional about this.

So if I cry, you can't tell anybody, even though they can see it. My daughter says, I want you to walk me down the aisle. And she did that because she knew that I was feeling sorry for myself.

She did that because she knew I could manifest that. And I'm just. Just re. I'm just reaffirming what you're saying. And that's what I did.

And it motivated me to move forward, and it motivated me to walk her down the aisle. And I did walk her down the aisle. It was slow, but it was wonderful. I mean, it was one of the best moments of my life from the perspective.

So from that point on, like you said, I know make him a teacher. I speak about it, I talk about it. I try to motivate others in moving themselves forward and they can overcome this podcast.

One more thing before you go was born from that. It is one more thing you can always do. There's always one more thing to say. There's always one more thing you can do.

Triumph over tragedy you can overcome. So, yes, it has motivated me into being more of a teacher from that perspective, I believe. And then the universe helped to move me forward in that.

That's why I have a better understanding of manifestation now than I did when we first watched the movie. You know, it. It's been a good journey, though.

Yeah. Look at you now.

Exactly. It's. It's fun. Now.

We obviously still have our struggles, but, you know, every time I think it help us to understand manifestation, if you don't mind, please. We're talking about it. We understand it from my perspective. That was my journey. I manifested myself out of a wheelchair.

I used my mind, my body, my soul, my universe, the people around me to walk out of the wheelchair and not look back. Put it in the garage. It's there for a reminder, you know, it's collecting dust. I'm letting it collect dust because it's a symbol.

Let's talk about manifestation, the magic of manifestation. Can we maybe kind of elaborate a little bit on that to help others understand?

Yeah.

So the manifestation is essentially, I mean, from a really technical standpoint, manifestation is when anything appears in your reality that was originally in non reality. Right. So you just drank something. Right.

So if you didn't have that right there next to you and you had thought, I would like something to drink, you have a desire born inside of you, and then maybe your wife comes in with a drink, that would be a manifestation. Right. Because something that was in thought, in idea, became a reality. And.

But usually when it's discussed in like a concept manifestation world, especially in personal development, what we're talking about is bringing forth to us, attracting to us, rather than going out and getting something, going out and making something happen with our human effort rather than, you know, so the opposite of that would be really feeling it, feeling that it is coming to you and then allowing it to show up.

And where I think the teachings kind of go offline or go off the path of what I now know to be true is there's this idea that if you visualize, you know, a sports car, and you feel the sports car, the sports car will come. And if you don't, if the sports card does not come, that means you're not visualizing properly.

Whereas what I understand now is that when you have a desire born of your true heart, of your true soul, it is a connection, an intimate connection between you and the divine, or you and whatever word you want to use for the universe, source, God and the Universe starts delivering it to you. And then the only work to do is to allow yourself to receive it. And from a young age, we are taught unworthiness.

And so my work in the world, in making space for magic and teaching that concept, is to understand that you do not have to do anything to be worthy, but you do have to allow yourself to be worthy.

And when you've been taught most of your life that your worthiness depends on what you do and what you say and how you help others and less on how you feel about yourself and how you treat yourself and how you honor yourself, that's what blocks out magic. And magic is essentially the force of manifestation.

That's a very interesting perspective because I know that the. We can manifest anything within the universe.

Basically, we can manifest money, we can manifest a job, we can manifest a promotion, we can manifest a better lifestyle, a new home. Those are tangible items. Tangible items.

You think we can manifest things like love or a partner if somebody's looking for a husband or a wife or a boyfriend or girlfriend?

Mm, absolutely. The key is, though, when you said we can manifest anything that is of our highest good.

So when we manifest, and I think that's something that's really under. Under mentioned, because it doesn't sell as well, is that when you have a desire, you.

You've made the request to the divine, and the divine's gonna give you its loving answer. And sometimes the loving answer is not yet. And so when something doesn't show up in the timeframe, we like it to.

There's a lot of information out there that we didn't create the right vision board. We didn't visualize properly, we didn't vibrate properly. And in some cases it's true. In some cases, we're so in fear.

You know, we'll talk about a loving partner, a romance. Like there may be, you're just so feeling the absence of it and really feeling like it can't ever happen to you. That will block the manifestation.

But it can also be that person who's perfect for you has one more road bump to travel over before they are ready to meet you where you are. And the divine wants that. They want perfection for us. Not good enough, right?

Yeah, that makes sense. It really does. So do you think that. And this might be an off the wall question, but I believe in feng shui and how feng shui works within the house.

Do you think feng shui benefits manifestation?

Absolutely. Yeah. And one of my good friends and my feng shui consultant, Patricia Lohan, says feng shui is like acupuncture for your home.

Just like I think acupuncture helps you clear energetic disruptions in your body. Feng shui does it to your home. And when you clear energetic disruptions, it helps you be clear.

I think what's interesting about feng shui, because Patricia and I talk about all the time, and I'm in her community talking about this, is once you complete feng shui, you know, you make a fix to your home with feng shui. Let's say you're making it in the marriage corner or the relationship corner. It's not going to instantly bring you your partner.

It's going to reveal what needs to happen for that partner to come in.

And a lot of times what happens is people apply feng shui remedies, but then they're being guided to change and they're kind of sitting there and going, like, where's my romantic partner? Where's my money? I put my. I put my fountain in my money corner. Where's my money? But meanwhile, in the back of their head, it's.

They've been hearing, you need to call the creditors, you need to make arrangements for payments, you need to look at your bills, you need to look at your bank account, you need to feel the pain that comes up, right? And they're like, no, no, I put the fountain in the money corner. That's what I'm going to do. And that's where it starts and ends.

And so, you know, just like when you do acupuncture on your body, if you keep then going back and smoking and like sitting all the time and not moving your body in healthy ways, well, the acupuncture, eventually, it can't do all right, you have to partner with it. So that's my two cents.

Oh, and that's a great two cents. And I can validate both of those, both the acupuncture aspect and the feng shui aspect of it. The acupuncture aspect. I use acupuncture.

Most of my listeners understand that I've talked about it before to help re energize myself and to balance my energies. It helps me with my inflammation, it helps me to balance my body, which in turn helps me balance my mind, which in turn helps me balance my life.

So same thing with feng shui.

When we move something around the house, we have an expectation that it's going to help us, but we have to listen to the universe, all encompassing, not just one thing, you know, like you said. But I put the fountain in there, I put the Fountain over there.

Unfortunately, my youngest daughter, our youngest daughter, she said, I did what you said. I put it over there, Put it over there. And it's not working. It's like, well, you know, you got to kind of expand upon that and listen.

You got to listen to it. Do you think that's kind of the science behind manifestation? Would you agree? I mean, you got to kind of. I think you talk about it, right?

The science behind it and the psychology within your mind. You still have to develop a mindset. So how does one do that?

And I steer away from the word mindset, although it applies, I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about mindset, because mindset, the way it's taught is usually think positive thoughts, right? And it's a lot of what's happening at the conscious level.

But when I talk about the science of manifestation, and I'm talking about the way we block our receiving of what's coming in, right? So we make a desire. The divine says, yes, it starts to arrive. But we have this wall of resistance up that we're taught from a young age.

That wall of resistance is actually generated by our amygdala and by our subconscious thinking systems. So when you're talking about mindset and thinking positive thoughts, mindset alone is not going to do anything. You have to face something.

You have to combine your thoughts, your actions and your emotions to create the alchemy that starts to reduce that resistance. So that's what I also think. In the spiritual world, there's a lot of bypassing of the mind.

There's a lot of bypassing of the brain functions and the nervous system.

And I'm a big believer in really using the brain and the brain science and the way our brain works with our nervous system to release the resistance we have. Because we can keep ignoring those subconscious beliefs of worthiness and lack and enoughness and think all kinds of positive thoughts.

But if we do not get underneath the core beliefs, nothing changes in the long term.

Do you think that it's in our DNA?

I mean, for thousands of years, people, especially monks, Buddhist monks, Zen monks, anybody, along with those lines of philosophy, some people call them religions, some people call them philosophies. I've studied both of them. Do you believe that it's in our DNA? Is there something that's inherent within us to reach out like that?

I believe that our limits, like our limiting beliefs, some of them are in our DNA. And I also believe ascension, the ability to rise above the vibrational frequency of fear, is also in our DNA.

I believe both of those exist in our DNA.

It's interesting how, when you really stop and think about it, how the universe answers us, if we're willing to listen is my thing. I am not a practicing Catholic. I grew up Catholic. I'm like you. I grew up Catholic. I was in a very strict Catholic family as well.

I am not a practicing Catholic. I've evolved past that, in my opinion. And that's everybody's journey is their own. I believe in universe. I believe in God. I believe in.

I believe in angels.

I believe, you know, that we have the ability to connect with our angels, our divine, our God, however you want to put it, the universe in totality, to be. To create the environment or the life that we want. If we take the time to listen and have patience.

Yes and yes. I will just say yes. And I think it's the desire to escape the difficult parts that really keep us from having the fulfillment we can have.

And that's the biggest manifestation myth, is that when we're feeling something bad, we're attracting something bad.

Now when we're manufacturing thoughts that make us feel bad, like we're thinking, oh, I know that, that what that person's thinking, and, you know, they're judging me and that kind of stuff. Yeah, you are kind of bringing some crap into your life with that.

But when you're, you're, you know, when you're in a wheelchair on, you know, at no fault of your own, there is actual healing that needs to happen. There is grief and there is anger and there is pain. That is real and it must be felt. And none of those things attracts bad stuff.

They do the total opposite. They attract the answers to the healing. And it's this feeling like you have to push away, you know, even. And yours is an extreme example.

And probably a lot of people listening aren't facing something like that. It might be that we've just been through a pandemic and now we have to put masks back on. And I feel bad, right.

You know, and I know every state's different. The state I'm living in has got mask requirements. And it's like, you know, there people are fighting against each other. Is this right? Is this wrong?

If we just stop for a minute and just feel the fatigue and the trauma and the exhaustion and the pain of our individual experience of having gone through a pandemic, we will get to a place of peace on all these issues so much faster.

Right? Absolutely. 100%. I agree with that.

I think that the pandemic has changed Us in many ways it has allowed us to reflect upon what's normal and what's not normal. Humanity, compassion. It has opened eyes to many aspects of life that people had ignored for quite some time because they got complacent.

And we all did. We all got complacent within certain aspects. It allowed us to reevaluate and to kind of look at a different perspective.

I think in again, patients, you know, this pandemic unfortunately has killed. We've experienced it ourselves. My wife had it. She was in bed for 96 hours. So I know the pain of that.

I know going through that, not understanding I could. I know listening to my wife barely breathe, sound like she was underwater. And whether or not she was going to recover. We've experienced it firsthand.

I went through Covid. I had a mild case of it, but I had it. My sister's mother in law died from COVID It's real and it's a fact.

And unfortunately it is still here and is still putting stipulations on society that unfortunately people don't have patience for. I think.

And if you experience it firsthand and you know what it does and you see what it does and you see it's real, I think that it's an opportunity to, like you said, it's take a breath, listen to what's going on, open yourself to the universe. And I kind of got sidetracked on everything because of that. So my apologies.

But yeah, it's alive. It's alive for everyone right now.

And I really believe this conversation we're having, that's the context of it was, hey, I just wrote this book about making space for magic. Let's talk right is. And you're kind enough to offer me a conversation on it.

But if we're not alive with whatever material we're putting out, you know, if you're not alive with what your struggle created for you in wisdom that took you through the pandemic, then what we've learned and what we've traversed is meaningless.

Exactly 100%. Exactly 100%. Not to segue into this next question has nothing to do with what I just talked about. But you mentioned killing the sacred cow.

Can we talk about that and understand it a little bit more?

Yeah, I think when we talk about that, when I talk about it, is that in this country, you know, financial security is something that feels like the ultimate expression of responsibility of maybe even spiritual and personal development highs. I don't really know how to even say that in probably a proper context of what we're talking about right now.

But to me, we need to really let go of security in favor of freedom, like real freedom.

And from my journey, that's what that's been about, is understanding that when you're doing things to make money, when you're doing things to secure what you want over what feels true to you, you're trading security for freedom. And when that's truly what we want, in order to have it, we have to trade human security for divine trust. And it's a scary leap.

Coming from a. Coming from a Catholic background. What is your spiritual perspective on it, if I can ask?

Because again, I'm coming from a Catholic background as well. What is your spiritual perspective on it?

On which.

On everything. We just talked about the whole manifestation aspect, the releasing, you know, releasing, like the financial aspects of, like, killing the sacred cow.

Yeah, money. Money is, unfortunately, we need money to survive. We'd love to have money to buy things that we want. I mean, everybody wants something.

I want the car that James Bond drives, actually. I want to be into the next James Bond movie. You know, those aspects of everything. If I look back at this topic, pauses for a second.

When I look back on my Catholic upbringing, it says, well, you know, you're not supposed to. You're not supposed to do that. You're not supposed to be greedy. You're not supposed to look for, you know, you're only supposed to get what.

What you can live on. You're only supposed to, you know, look at the priest and the minute they live minimally and so forth.

So from that perspective, asking for more, asking for what we want, asking for more financial gain, asking for something like, I'd love to make 100 grand a year. Is that a conflict of interest, do you think?

I love that question.

So, you know, one of the advantages I had in my Catholic upbringing is I was educated at the high school level by a sect of nuns that were highly educated and valued education. And so we studied the Bible from a real historical standpoint. And what we need to understand, even if we were going to honor.

Because I actually do talk to Christian groups and I can translate what I talk about, specifically related to the Bible, is that the teachings we have today, especially in the Catholic religion, are not what the actual source said. Right. And so always when you're looking in a religious context, you have to look at the historical reasons for the religious context.

And a lot of the financial ones in the Catholic Church were actually driven by power structures. The understanding that when people had less money, they had less Power, Right. And so it was keeping power structures in place. That's it.

That's interesting.

And it takes a really long time to unwind emotional relationships to ideas. And because there was so much fear instilled in that teaching, that fear is in our DNA, Right. It's been passed down generation to generation.

And when you come into the Catholic Church generationally, that's. You're. You're coming in with all of that. Right. It also then is aided by. So I'm Irish Catholic, we went through the potato famine.

So now you have value in poverty. Then you're raised by people who live through the depression, sanctity and poverty. And now there's meaning in their suffering.

There's just so many layers that need to be understood and undid. The thing is that when you look at Jesus, which is really the core of the teaching, Jesus was the most disruptive dude ever.

And yeah, you know, he was a disrupter. He was a complete rebel, a complete disruptor. Like, this person I was raised to be, falling in line, like, Jesus would have been like, who are you?

Like, you what?

Yeah, I'd be in the same boat.

So.

And, you know, Fishes and Loaves, one of the most told stories of the, of the New Testament, where Jesus goes out and, you know, talks about fishes and loaves and turning water to wine. Another core story. All stories about when our hearts desire something divine, meets it with not just enough.

The wine he created was the best wine served at the wedding. Every story is about abundance. Even his sacrifice was so that we could have a better life.

That makes a lot of sense, actually. Yeah, it does. I'm glad that you presented it that way. I kind of helped people understand that there's nothing wrong in wanting more.

There's nothing wrong in wanting abundance. There's nothing wrong in wanting more money or a bigger promotion or a bigger house. There's nothing wrong in wanting that. It's not greedy.

It's wanting more. And the reality is the more we have, the more we can give back.

So you make more money, you can give more to help feed people, you can help the homeless, you can help people that are veterans that are in need of things. So in my opinion, the more money you make, the more money you can help with. So that's. That's my perspective on that part of it.

I think that I appreciate. I really appreciate that philosophy that you just shared in that point of view because of growing up Catholic.

And I had not thought about that before. You actually helped to ease my mind a little bit in Regard to that, because deep down in the back of my psyche, it's still kind of buried there.

I had this thing about money. It's still there. And that's probably blocking. And that's probably. You probably just released a block for me. Thank you.

Magic.

Magic. That was magic.

Well, and I do want to just. Can I jump in and say one more thing about that?

Absolutely.

Sort of that thin line, though, that we need to consider is are you doing something to get money that conflicts with what your heart wants and needs right now? And so that's where I think it becomes. The sin is when you're willing to.

When your heart is telling you to be with someone you love for whatever reason, they're sick, they're little and not. And this is not for me to tell you that if you've got small children, you shouldn't work and you should take care of them. That's not this.

This is your individual relationship with your individual people. And you're going out to do something to bring money in instead of honoring what your heart says.

Or you need to rest and you're working because it requires money. That's the sin. That's what we're being told not to do.

And to instead trust that without doing anything but our 100%, which is one of my rules of receiving.

And your 100% is what you can do freely and easily with your energy while staying rested and in a spirit of love, the divine fills the gap from there.

That makes it. Yeah, that's. That's brilliant, actually. I think I really appreciate that you bringing that and sharing that as well. Real quick.

I know we've not too long to. Go ahead. Let me speak in English. I'm tongue type. You got me so excited about all of this and opening. Opening up something.

You mentioned toxic positivity and how that. How that affects us. So even. I mean, I try to be positive all of everything I do and everything I try to. I move forward in a very positive way.

I try to share things in a positive way. I try to stay happy and positive every day. But can we have too much positivity?

Yep. Yeah, you can. Because if. If you're within you is the full expression of humanity, which includes pain.

Right before you were human, when you were wherever you think you were, heaven or whatever would you call it, There was not no contrast. There was no. There was no challenge. There was a difficulty. That is the reason you incarnate. It was to feel this contrast. Right.

Positivity is only one color in the rainbow of Human expression. And when we believe it's the only good one, we've gone off the path.

And it's actually in denying the truth of our emotions that we continue to build this resistance around us. Because it says unless we're positive, we're not bringing good stuff in. Unless we're positive, we're not worthy.

And sometimes it's sitting down and having a temper tantrum over the fact that you have to put masks back on. That is the highest expression of your inner divinity. Because it's true.

I agree with that. I think that it gets to a point where sometimes.

And this is no reflection upon the world, basically, but I think that it gets to a point where sometimes they don't give you permission to be angry, permission to be depressed, permission to be, you know, in denial, permission to be negative. Because I've gone through all of those.

And I think that allowing yourself to go through those, each one of them allows us to balance the positivity and understand and appreciate what is positive in life, no matter what aspect of it is. Because like I said earlier, I went through the. When I was told by five doctors and sent home, I sat in the car and cried. My wife and I both did.

And it was devastating for me to hear that. And at the time that I walked out of my hearing for my disability, I was still walking. But they said, you will be in a wheelchair. And I was.

I ended up in a wheelchair, just like they projected. I went through anger, I went through depression, I went through, you know, every aspect. Denial in. In.

In that overcoming that allows me to go back and say, yes, I felt these. They're valid. I had a reason for feeling them, and I could be positive about it and share things in a positive way in a nice balance.

So whenever I've talked to people in regard to that journey in specific, I let them know that, yes, there is light at the end of the tunnel. You are allowed to be negative, you are allowed to be mad, you are allowed to be depressed.

You are allowed to feel those emotions because that's part of growing and part of moving forward. So your perspective on toxic positivity is a good thing. I appreciate that as well.

What challenges stand in the way of life moving forward, do you think? Since I just expressed mine.

I mean, as a humanity, I think the challenge that stands in all of our way is our attachment to how much of our reality is dictated by our human effort versus the divinity within us. And then how that expresses in my life specifically is definitely still in motherhood, that I can Walk this talk in almost every area of my life.

But when I am faced with my kids potentially suffering because I'm honoring what I need, it still cuts me to the core.

Yeah. Those of us that are parents, it seems like kids always come first and they're always at our forefront of our mind.

And when it comes to anything that we do and understanding that, we all need to balance that because for our own sanity and for our own progression as well. But I'm with you. Yeah, I'm absolutely with you there. Had you always wanted to be an author?

You know, it's interesting because when I was in grammar school, my English teacher told me to focus on math and science. I'd never be a writer. And in high school, I won a national writing contest.

Take out.

But I still held. I think that wound, you know, and my heart really called me to the law, to the legal profession.

And that's a whole story of why I didn't go there and why I went into banking. But I think, yeah, in my heart of hearts, my word words have always been my healing modality.

The women in my family teach love and offer love through cooking. And my husband offers love through physicality.

He's a coach and he's physically, you just feel loved by the way he, like, moves and interacts with you. But mine is worse. So, yeah, I think at the heart, there was always a book inside my heart.

Exactly. What was your motivation for this book?

Many we didn't talk about. But one of my gifts is I'm an intuitive. And now I can talk to the other side of the veil. And most people think that gifts like that come from birth.

Either you have them or you don't, that you can either be this manifestation, whatever people think I am, and you have to be a certain way.

And I really wanted to be clear about all the struggles, all the low points, all the materialism, like all of the falling downs that I did along the way to get here. For people to understand their flaws are actually their greatest tool in getting what they want.

That's amazing. Actually. You know, I forgot to bring up about that thing with being intuitive. When did you first realize that?

I was out in a desert with the person I was learning coaching from, Martha Beck. And I suddenly just started to know things and it was like a black and white moment. And I thought I was like making it up.

And then I started talking to people and I knew things that I shouldn't necessarily know.

And my spirit guides have since told me that was conscious to hold my gifts in Limbo until I was 35, because I would be teaching people what it felt like to be unconscious of gifts and then access them. And I needed to go through that journey myself.

So that's very interesting, actually. When did. When did you first get in contact with your spirit guides? If I can ask, how did they. How did you make that connection?

After I started to understand that these gifts were real, I just started seeing feeling energies around me that were there to help me. And the more I read on all of this, I started to understand that guides existed.

And then I talked to them more, and then I started attributing a lot of what I knew to them. Like, I would say, oh, my guides are saying this, my guides are saying that. And all of a sudden, I went blank.

I couldn't access them at all for, like, probably a year. And when I did finally access them again, they said we had to go quiet because you were giving us too much attribution.

And you need to take that power and honor. It's within you that this information is coming from and that, you know, it's coming through you. And all word doing is helping you.

Oh, that's really interesting. Do you think we all have guides?

We absolutely all have guides.

Yes, I believe in that. I talk to them on a daily basis. I just wanted to let our listeners and viewers hear that for themselves.

Yes.

You get guides when you come in that stay with you your whole life, and then you have guides specific to every challenge and role you play on the planet that stay with you for as long as you need them.

That's. I mean, I. I 100% every day talk to my guys and my angels, and they're probably going, okay, can you stop now?

Like, it's one of those things where you see the phone call come through and you go, I don't want to talk to that person anymore. And you press the send.

Oh, him again.

When. When did you first find out that you could communicate with. Across the veil, the other side.

So I was getting information for people. But then when my mom went through cancer treatments, in the beginning of her original cancer treatment, she had lung cancer, and she had.

She had a lung operation. She needed to get chemo. She fell and broke her hip as she was about to go into chemo, and the doctor said that they could not.

They could not do the hip replacement. She was going to have to go through chemo with a broken hip because they wouldn't be able to do the chemo if she had the hip replacement for weeks.

And the cancer was aggressive. So she had to go through with extreme pain. And so she required a lot of care. And so I was with her a lot.

And I started to see this being stand behind her. I could see when she was in the most pain, and this being would stand behind her.

And when I saw this being put its hands on my mom, my mom's whole body would relax. And I'd say, what just happened, Mom? And she's like, I don't know.

The morphine must have kicked in, because they would give her morphine when they could, but she didn't have morphine at that moment. And I said, mom, there's someone standing behind you.

And I described it to her, and it turns out it was her sister that had died when she was young, someone I've never met and didn't. I hadn't seen pictures of. And she had died of a painful childhood illness. And so she understood.

And what I find is that the beings from the other side that help us are uniquely qualified to help us because of their own experiences. And that was the first time I understood that. That was having that direct communication.

Years later, as my mom went through treatments and ultimately died from cancer, she was moving in and out of her body, and I could communicate with her on both sides of the veil. And so it was that very spec ability to talk to her in human form and talk to her as she was exiting her body that really helped me, like, hone that.

And then as our entire family lineage came in to meet her.

That's amazing. What amazing? Yeah, Yeah. I can feel you. I can feel your emotion. You can? A very profound moment. That's cool. That's our standing.

If we understood truly how loved we are and how protected we are and how supported we are, like, if we truly. Even me who sees and talks, if we could really walk through the world like that, anything would be possible.

It would change. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I agree. I agree 100%. I think we need to be aware of more the fact that we do have that support system from the other side.

I felt it through my journey. It's been a very long journey. I've had its ups and downs, and I have felt it within myself. Let's talk about your book a little bit.

It's called Make Space for Magic. What a wonderful title. I think that everybody should make space for magic in their own lives. So what inspired you to write this?

Yeah, so it was just what I said is that I wanted people to really have a book that showed them that you can have this Very flawed journey.

This journey with ups and downs and that each point there's magic available to us and show through my own story, through my clients stories, how we did that and then also give tools to help people do that, but in a way that didn't feel like reading the book as a job. So the tools are very gentle, they're very subtle.

My goal was really to make sure that the book felt like magic, like a magical journey, not like, okay, now I'm going to have to fundamentally change myself to have the life I want.

And how can we find that book and connect with you?

Yes. So you can find me@pattylaine.com and then the book, especially if you're watching this during our launch period, which is October, November of 2021.

I don't know when this will come out, but we're giving away prizes and we're doing lots of fun stuff. So if you go to pattyland.com forward/makes space for magic, you'll see where you can get in on all the goodies.

And certainly you can find it at any major retailer, Amazon, Barnes and Noble and local booksellers, I believe.

And I'll make sure that all that's in the show notes for everybody so that they have opportunity to get in touch with you and find your book. And I'll make sure this is get put up before your launch.

Wonderful.

We can talk about that here in a few minutes. This is one more thing before you go. So before we go, do you have any words of wisdom you'd like to share with us?

When my father crossed over two years ago and he got to the other side, very traditional Irish Catholic, he thought what he was going to see on the other side was God waiting for him to go through his list of sins. You know, he had gone to confession, he had done all the things, but he figured there were some things he had to answer for.

And what met him were all the people he helped.

Wow.

And he said, patty, when you get to the other side, the only currency that matters is kindness. And that's what I would leave you with.

That's an excellent way of leaving us with a profound opportunity to open our hearts. So thank you very much for sharing your journey with us, for sharing those words with us.

And I look forward to your book coming out and I look forward to having another conversation with you.

Thank you. Michael.

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It's been a great, great conversation.

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