From Tarzan to Transformation: A Journey in Conscious Manhood

Michael Herst
00:00:00

One more thing before you go. Have you ever wondered what it truly means to be a successful, purpose driven, loving and happy man in today's world?

Or how to transcend the roles, the ego, habits and the relationship boxes that often confine us? In this episode, we dive into these questions with our remarkable guest, Scott Grace.

Scott has made every mistake in the book when it comes to being a man. After all, his first role model was Tarzan. We have that in common.

But through his funny, insightful, humble, yet powerful, manual, mindful Masculinity, a book for men and women, women who love them, Scott brings solid wisdom that gently nudges his readers towards a more conscious perception of masculinity. I'm your host, Michael Hurst. Welcome to One more thing before you go.

Scott Grace is a highly sought after singer, speaker, workshop leader, life coach and the author of four books and a standup comedian who has opened for legends like Robin Williams and Dana Carvey. He has shared the stage with personal growth celebrities such as Deepak Chopra, Dr. John Gray, and Louise Hay, known as the spiritual Dr. Seuss.

It's fantastic. You got to see it. It's on YouTube. We'll have a link. Scott combines entertainment, wisdom and comedy to inspire and uplift.

So join us as we explore Scott's pal.

Scott strips away misconceptions, embodied beliefs and behaviors that no longer serve us, using his hilarious self depreciating humor to show where he went wrong and to bring light in a new way that attracts people rather than drives them away. You'll walk away with insights on overcoming the innate drive to live up to expectations, transforming the inner critic and embracing authenticity.

Welcome to the show, Scott.

Scott Grace
00:01:50

Well, thank you, Michael. What an honorable introduction.

Michael Herst
00:01:54

Well, you have an honorable life as you have progressed through it and you've presented to the world humor and insight and wisdom and all these valuable tools that you've given us. So thank you.

Scott Grace
00:02:08

Yes, much welcome.

Michael Herst
00:02:10

You know, it's interesting, usually I kind of go, you have so much to offer.

I kind of like to usually start like where you come from, but I noticed in your bio and on your website you talk about, and I love this, especially the Dr. Seuss connection. Let's talk about the nine lives of Scott Grace. It's, it's a very unique way of putting life in perspective.

Sort of like, like a cat, right? Sort of, kind of, sort of, kind of, sort of. Tell me where I know you grew up in New York.

Scott Grace
00:02:41

I grew up in Brooklyn. I went to college, dropped out, came back and made my income selling laundry bags on the Streets of New York City. And it was illegal.

I didn't have a license, and I would get chased by the police. And during that time, I developed myself as an entertainer because I would say nylon jumbo laundry bags, machine washable.

And it got kind of boring saying the same thing over and over again. So I would interject playful things like, you've read the book, you've seen the movie, now buy the bag.

The strongest laundry bag you can buy without a prescription. Rich.

Michael Herst
00:03:26

That. That's amazing. I have a note from nypd, by the way, since, you know, brotherhood, boys in blue, they. They're giving you a free pass now. So it.

It's okay.

Scott Grace
00:03:39

I want to tell you a little story. This is a side story, but I was out there on the streets and I got this idea to forge a note.

It said, dear New York City police officers, this note is written permission for my son Scott to sell laundry bags on the sidewalks of New York City without a license. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but a mom's written permission sure is. Hugs and kisses, mom.

Michael Herst
00:04:08

Oh, those.

Scott Grace
00:04:10

I can't believe I'm telling this story. So I put the note in my pocket, and I almost couldn't wait to be caught next. I was so excited what was going to happen.

And sure enough, a few days go by and two of New York City's finest come over to me and they're about to write me a ticket and take my bags. And I said, hold it. I've got a note officially pardoning me from this activity. And I took it out, and one of the officers read it in police monotone.

He just read it out loud to his partner. Nobody smiled. I thought, oh, my God, they're not enjoying the joke. But he gave me back the note and he said, this one's on mom. Take a walk.

Michael Herst
00:04:51

This is on mom. That reminds me. Reminds me of Epstein. Remember Epstein? Welcome back, Carter. Oh, yes. Always bringing a note in from his mom.

Scott Grace
00:05:04

Yes, maybe that influenced me. Anyway, to finish the story, the next day, a.

A police car comes with sirens going, which usually meant they were after real criminals, something important. And so I didn't stop selling my bags. And they pulled right up to the sidewalk.

They got out of the car, the two officers from the day before, and they said, we want the note.

Michael Herst
00:05:30

We want the note.

Scott Grace
00:05:32

And I realized that their sirens and they were playing a joke on me. They were getting back at me. And they said, we told everybody in the precinct about it. No one believed us.

Michael Herst
00:05:42

Oh, that's funny.

Scott Grace
00:05:43

So they laminated it and put it on the precinct.

Michael Herst
00:05:51

That's cool. You're famous. Yeah, that's really, that's brilliant, actually.

And coming from, as a cop, I love that approach because, you know, is so that job is so usually right by the book and just so you see the worst in people and you see the best people at their worst on a consistent basis. So I bet you brought a nice smile to them. So I appreciate that. That's pretty cool.

So you, you moved out and you, when you, when you completed that, you moved out of New York, did you.

Scott Grace
00:06:22

Where'd you go from there, San Diego area. And from there, the Bay area. Now I'm in Mexico.

Michael Herst
00:06:30

That's, that's, that's a little, kind of a loop or a large difference too, but I bet you don't get any snow down in Mexico. But you got it in New York, right?

Scott Grace
00:06:38

Sure enough. Sure enough. And one of my mentors and I wrote about it in the most recent book was a police officer, Richard Barti.

And he quit police offering, I know there's a better word, because he wanted to prevent crime with love and creativity and poetry. And he thought he could make more of a difference and busting people.

So he traded in his badge and he, he moved from Syracuse to New York City and he became known as the D train poet. And I saw him on the subway getting people to chant. More hugging, less muggin. More hugging, less muggin. More hugging, less mugging.

More hugging, less mugging. He had zero fear and he put himself out and he was very creative and, and I, I, we became friends, but he was really more of a mentor.

I want to do what you're doing, Richard. Not exactly the same way, but I want to be that free in self expression and I want to find my own ministry.

You know, I called him Swami Subway Nanda because a majority of his ministry, his service was on the subways.

Michael Herst
00:07:56

Oh, that's cool. That's very cool.

Scott Grace
00:07:57

He inspired me when I started writing poetry and expressing myself in rather unique ways in the Spirit Spiritual. Dr. Seuss, come on. You know, it was never done before. And I, I would call on him because he had died.

I would call on him as one of my spirit guides, you might say, and asked him for the courage to follow my heart.

Michael Herst
00:08:19

That's pretty cool. That's a, that's a, that's a profound story, actually. I, I appreciate what you do in regard to that.

I wish you were around when I was going to Catholic church because they're so monotone and boring. We wanted nothing more but to leave as soon as possible kind of a thing. But you make everything fun. I mean, you really do. You make it kind of really.

You make it unique and you make it fun. So. Yeah, that's cool. I know you, you're, you're, you're. Obviously we said earlier you're kind of a, you're a troubadour.

You travel around and singing and so forth and stand up comedian. I know you've opened for a lot of, a lot of individuals across the country. How did you get, how did you move into that? How did you slide into that?

Scott Grace
00:09:09

Yeah, that was amazing. So I had, I have the gift of being able to combine improvisation with messages and humor.

So somebody like Deepak would get a hold of me because I would open up or close or both his talks, his presentations, his seminars with music that would come into my brain about what he just talked about. So I became known for that. And my voice isn't that great. My guitar playing is okay.

But really what I became known for is being able to tune into a person, a moment or a subject, and channel, if you will, the lyric. And I'd be happy to do it for you and your audience today when we come up with a topic and you can say, hey, sing about what we just talked about.

Michael Herst
00:10:06

That's a cool deal. I'm going to hold you to that. Yeah, I think that. What a unique opportunity for you to communicate. I think music is a.

And any type of music, whether it's verbal or just instrumental, I think music is an international language. I think it all resonates with us deep within our souls and will connect with us in various ways. So, yeah, I'm excited to try that.

I really, I am here. Before we get there, though, can, can we talk about.

I know that you, you had some corporate jobs before you went more into this creative aspect of your life or in the middle of create your creative aspect. What'd you do for the corporate world?

Scott Grace
00:10:49

Actually, it was very creative.

What I did was the same thing I did for Deepak and Marianne Williamson and all these celebrities, which is I went to their board meetings and when they, they had enough intellectual understanding and they would turn to me and say, summarize in song what we just talked about, what the main points are. So, yeah, it was, it was the same thing I was doing in the personal growth arena. It just was that I had to wear a suit.

Michael Herst
00:11:22

And this evolved into. Was this. Was this before you decided to become a standup comedian or was this after?

Scott Grace
00:11:31

Well, it was during.

Michael Herst
00:11:32

Or during Same time.

Scott Grace
00:11:34

Yeah, yeah.

Michael Herst
00:11:35

What, what part? I mean, obviously you combine music and you combine humor in and so forth. What is your favorite? I mean, what do you.

My brain's going like 100 miles a minute, so you have to give me a second. All these things just popping in my head going, I need to ask this, I need to ask that, I need to ask this.

And I'm thinking about what we're going to do for your little demonstration because I'm excited about that as well. So your stand up humor, was it always part of your work anyway? From the beginning?

Scott Grace
00:12:10

Yes. I was constantly writing funny songs and doing little monologues during my concert, but it was in the realm of music.

One day I just realized the most terrifying thing I could possibly imagine was to do standup without the guitar. And I'm, I'm. I'm really into facing my fears. So I, I did it and it was very well received. And then I did it again and again and again and again and.

And fate brought me together with Robin Williams and Dana Carvey and a lot of celebrities. So.

Michael Herst
00:12:44

Yeah, yeah. I think it's a unique approach. My wife and I watch a lot of comedy specials and you know, we love going to live shows and so forth.

I think you're unique in the fact that you do bring music to the show and I think that that again, kind of resonates. The combination between the humor as well as the music allows people to get a deeper understanding of actually in my.

At least in my eyes, that you get more involved in the show, I think.

Scott Grace
00:13:16

Yeah, yeah.

And besides the humorous part, I was writing songs about my own personal development and in the audible version of my latest book, there's like a three hour concert of songs that retain that pertain to the subject of men, women, relationship, masculinity, personal songs. And I'll share a little taste right now of one of the songs that I wrote when I was in the Question what does it mean?

Really mean to be a man I was so yeah, I was sold a storyline Life is rough so get tough, go out take what is mine Stay in control, get the upper hand show no fear, cry no tear Learn to be Superman now that story is burning Going up in smoke can't live it any longer cause I'm being choked in the pitch black night I'm looking for my heart the light may be coming but I'm still in the dark Then out the old Bringing in the new and walking through the fire between the two eyes Moving out the old Bringing in the new and walking through the fire between the two.

Michael Herst
00:14:54

Well done.

Scott Grace
00:14:56

The beginning, you know, there's a lot of it.

Michael Herst
00:15:02

If I could clap, I would clap, so.

Scott Grace
00:15:04

Oh, that's all right. But the bridge of that song, I think would be a nice lead in to a deeper conversation about what the book is about. So let me sing the bridge.

Michael Herst
00:15:15

Let's do this.

Scott Grace
00:15:17

All of. I can just remember it moving the fire between the two all of these years prisoner of my fears and I've been hiding my heart to bear it.

Like I've been hit in my stomach's pit and I haven't come up for air yet. But as I take my first breaths, my heart is put to the test. There's a lot of emotion to feel. Sometimes it cuts like a knife.

But I'm committed to life and I know that the blade is slicing to heal. Leaving what is real now in that bridge is the whole purpose of the darn book.

Michael Herst
00:16:12

What, what inspired you to write Mindful Masculinity and tell us a little bit more about that? Because I mean, we can look at it and think about it.

When you hear the world, hear the, hear the word mindful, masculinity help us understand what that means as well.

Scott Grace
00:16:31

Mindful is usually synonymous with aware, conscious, being able to observe your thoughts, your feelings, your behaviors without necessarily analyzing, interpreting, judging. That's mindfulness. Masculinity is this, you know, it's the energy that builds worlds, that protects and serves.

And when it's not working in harmony with a sense of purpose to help other people, it's an energy that can be destructive, that can burn rainforests and hurt women and hurt life, you know, so, yeah, so mindful masculinity, becoming aware and mindful of your true masculine nature without necessarily wearing a mask that the society and the culture tells us to put on. Mask masculinity, the way we were programmed versus what is innate masculine energy? Like how does it want to express through me.

Michael Herst
00:17:51

Do you think masculinity over the years, over the decades, even over centuries, has masculinity actually?

Scott Grace
00:17:57

Do you think it's evolved in some people?

Michael Herst
00:18:02

In some people it's still unfortunately stuck?

Scott Grace
00:18:05

Yeah, but I would say generally speaking, we. Yes, very much so. More and more men have integrated more and more of their feminine side.

More and more women are in a sense being forced to develop the left side of the brain. And I think it's destiny.

I think it's really called for that we become more whole brained and the left side of the brain is masculine, the right side Is the yin, the feminine, the receptive side. And we need both for a happy life.

Michael Herst
00:18:37

I agree with you. I think that. I think it's a misconception. I think in some areas where people hear the word masculinity in that regard.

What are some of the biggest misconceptions about masculinity that you may address in there? Like we just spoke about? I think, you know, we each have a view of what a masculine and a feminine is. I raised a daughter. Well, we.

My wife and I both raised two daughters.

And we did our best to make sure that they were strong, independent young ladies that could take care of themselves and, you know, and were confident as well as we think they're beautiful. But, you know, as parents, they're beautiful. Young, strong, intelligent women. Young women.

But at the same time, some of the world that's around us are falling back a little bit in how that relationship evolves. So what are some of the biggest misconceptions that maybe the book talks about?

Scott Grace
00:19:39

Well, one is the shame that many men feel in regards to feelings. There's a taboo. You're not supposed to be afraid. You're not supposed to show fear. And, of course, many men have trouble crying when they're sad.

So what happens when feelings are suppressed, that sadness, those tears turn into bullets. It turns into aggression. That's really. Aggression is really unprocessed grief, unless you need it in the moment for fight or flight.

With a real threat in front of you. There's lots of, you know, being a sissy because you're in touch with your feminine side. The possibility that you can emasculate or be emasculated.

By what? By somebody. By words. That somebody can take away your masculinity, your identity. Not happening.

You know, the idea that you have to overcompensate by becoming a workaholic or having the muscles have anything to do with masculinity. It does have something to do with courage. And sometimes that courage is expressed at the gym or in the office at work.

But for many men, more and more, we need that masculine courage to be turned to looking within. It's such a wonderful paradox that our emotions are part of our feminine side.

But for many a man, expressing them, getting in touch with them, takes a huge amount of courage, and courage is a masculine trait. So the rules of the game are changing. It's not so black and white. Sorry, Tarzan.

Michael Herst
00:21:30

Yeah. When I read that, I had to smile just a little bit because I grew up watching Johnny Weissmuller.

And we think of as the original Tarzan kind of a thing, and having to make sure I got to watch that every day.

And it presents us a vision of what we're supposed to look like and what we're supposed to do and how we're supposed to take care of women and how we're supposed to take care of our. Our wives, you know, and our daughters and things like this. But, you know, I think that we, as a society and culture may.

I think we did a pretty good.

We did a pretty good try at trying to move away from what the standard stereotypical masculine and feminine is supposed to be with what's showing up lately without getting into a huge political discussion or anything along that lines. I don't mean for it to go that direction, but do you think that.

Do you use humor to tackle some kind of those topics like ego and relationship challenges and things like that? Because what I see coming out again, unfortunately, it came out virally just recently, that ego.

And that just went viral with regard to masculine and feminine.

Scott Grace
00:22:57

Yes, there is a little bit of going back in relapse. Everybody who's dealt with an addiction has had some form of relapse, and it's part of the process.

So if you can step back and look at the bigger picture, hey, you know, we're evolving, and some people need to go back to the good old days and see just how not so good they were. I do write a lot about ego. Some people would say, you know, that men have a certain male ego, But I don't. I'm not so sure about that. In the book I.

I write about ego through the perspective of Dr. Seuss, and I'd be happy to share a bit of that with you if you'd like.

Michael Herst
00:23:48

Absolutely. Please do.

Scott Grace
00:23:50

Okay, so this is ego, not the Freudian ego, which is simply a sense of identity. I would define ego in this sense as the neurotic sense of identity, the part that is not working of your psyche. So it starts out like this.

The ego will travel with you on this earth and be your companion for worser or worse. It pretends it's your friend, your bestest amigo, and it pours on the guilt. That's the beverage of ego.

It's there to protect you, to help you be strong. So it has to remind you you've done it all wrong. You're weak and you're lazy and you don't have a clue.

That's your drill sergeant, ego, trying to motivate you. Your ego wants you to be all you can be. So it gives you these pep talks all day and for free.

But you always can get some relief from your pain by projecting it onto the others you'll blame for that is the ego at its bestiest best. It nurses its grievances close to its chest. Republicans, liberals, your parents, your ex, the world is just teeming with folks to correct.

If only those fools could conform to your ways, you could get on with life without further delays. The ego loves finding new gripes to complain about. Turns molehills to mountains of yikes to feel pain about.

Now I'm going to stop because it's a seven minute poem and I want to go to the ending because it has a happy ending and I feel like I want to bring balance to this conversation. One day when you failed and succeeded enough. You witness your ego exposed in the buff.

You realize behind all its protective clothing, your ego's been hiding a state of self loathing. And beyond that, you realize the biggest of deals you've dreamt up. The ego, it's not even real.

So for richer, for poorer, in all kinds of health, you make a commitment to loving yourself. You realize the love that you searched for outside you is what you are made of and can't be denied you.

So you let go your plans, your potions, your pills, put some logs on the fire and learn how to chill. Your old superstitions have gone up in smoke like you can't rest in peace until after you croak.

You no longer fear death or for that matter, life because you know that all matters are safe and all right. While resting in peace, you will soon be inspired to go out in the world with some newfound desires.

Desires that spring from your heart and your soul. And wherever they take you, you're going there whole. Because the ego is now in the passenger seat. It lets down the window and takes in the treats.

You're not in a hurry, you're going there slow. Because the journey's as rich as the places you'll go. Where you are going, you don't need to know.

Because the journey's as rich as the places you'll go.

Michael Herst
00:27:36

I needed you when I was working the street, my friend. Oh yeah, there was too many egos. So many calls I could tell you about that involved ego.

And so what a brilliant opportunity for somebody to really have an understanding that they have control and they have a choice and they have control. That's pretty cool. Thank you for sharing that.

Scott Grace
00:28:00

Yeah.

Michael Herst
00:28:02

What kind of, what kind of steps do you think that men can take in regard to having a better handle I guess on that and recognize that maybe sometimes your ego steps in the way of communication in solving problems viably.

Scott Grace
00:28:23

Well, I would say that the superpowers to develop are curiosity. Like if you could not take it personally when you're taking things personally and just go, oh, this is interesting. I feel my heart beating.

I'm wanting to defend or be right. That's a sign. I think maybe this is ego and develop a little sense of humor and detachment.

And maybe the willingness to pause would be the greatest gift if you. If you give yourself permission and. And work it out in your intimate relationships. Hey, hey, time out. I'm starting to feel worked up.

I know this is my ego and I don't want to come across this way. So I'm going to take a little space and maybe journal, maybe take a walk.

You know, everybody has their way of taking space and I want to calm my nervous system down so I don't come from this fight or flight energy. And then we'll come back and connect again.

Michael Herst
00:29:22

Yeah, I think that's an opportunity for us to be able to open the avenue of communication in the right way instead of the wrong way. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Do you think that that gives us the. From a relationship perspective, because we're talking in regard to that.

Do you think from a relationship perspective, does that then allow an authenticity in the relationship, in how we can. We can cultivate that relationship both, you know, with our partner and ourselves?

Scott Grace
00:29:53

Yes. Yeah. It's humble, it's honest, it's vulnerable, and it's real.

And it takes the conversation from the head, which always is able to argue a different point of view. But the heart is where. Where you get to feel people and meet and connect and be real. And the language of the heart is inarguable.

When you learn to speak with your heart, nobody can argue with you because you're just speaking on behalf of your. What's going inside, what's going on inside. You're owning it. Rather than spinning and sharing the spin and believing your own bullshit.

You could actually become emotionally honest and say, you know what? My heart is beating right now. I feel a tightness in my chest. I notice that I'm wanting to defend and protect myself and make you wrong.

This is not my highest truth and I would like a time out so I can find myself again.

Michael Herst
00:30:54

Yeah, I think that's brilliant. In my old profession in working domestic situations, the majority of those, 98% of those were all could have used that advice right there.

In specific, I think that sometimes they get caught up in their own ego from both sides. They get caught up in their ego as to who's right and who's wrong.

And, you know, there's always has to be a winner and a loser and a winner and a loser, but there doesn't have to be a winner a loser. You know, it can be mutually resolved from those perspectives. I think in. And communication is the key. I think so.

Scott Grace
00:31:35

I have nothing further to add, your honor. That was brilliantly said.

Michael Herst
00:31:40

Well, look, honestly, I wish I could have pulled you out of my pocket in many situations because what you just presented to us a little bit ago was like, amazing and just nothing short of brilliant. Do you think that we as men struggle with the pressure to live up to our father's expectations? You know, I see.

I see a lot of that, even in my friends and, you know, even.

I guess I can also say maybe our daughters as well, because, you know, my daughter sometimes will say, well, I wasn't upset because you got mad at me for doing something. I was upset because you were disappointed in me. And things like that. You think we live. Tried to live up to that pressure.

What kind of complications does that present us?

Scott Grace
00:32:26

I can only speak for myself and keep it on my side of the fence because there are people walking around here without father issues that haven't been wounded by their father, and bless them. I wish I had a dollar for every dollar I spent in therapy working on my father issues. And I would say that he was disappointed in me.

I did not follow in his footsteps, and he expressed his disappointment either in criticism or just by pulling away in apathy. And he cared about me, but he couldn't. He couldn't find the words. He just gave up. And it hurt.

Michael Herst
00:33:09

Does your book and your coaching, does that help? Can you help people through that if they are experiencing that themselves?

Scott Grace
00:33:16

Absolutely. All I need is a little willingness on the. And when people come to see me, they're expressing willingness.

And if I have to call them on their bullshit, I do it as gently as possible. And if I have to shake them a little bit with words, I do it, you know, But I tune into what that person most needs.

Over the course of even just a few minutes, I begin to feel and feel rapport and start to have a sense of what to say. I know what to say.

I don't know how I know what to say, but I know just as songs and things come to me, there's something inside me that knows how to serve people the best way possible. And it's my Favorite thing to do, I'd rather do it. I. Private sessions are more fulfilling for me than anything.

Any, any self expression at all, any being on the stage, in front of whatever, it doesn't matter.

Like when I connect with somebody and they feel seen, known and supported, that that's what gets me up out of bed in the morning knowing I can do that.

Michael Herst
00:34:30

What coming from an entertainment background, the way that you have, irregardless because you kind of still had it when you were still on the street selling laundry bags. Coming from that perspective in your life, more of a creative aspect, what motivated you to get into coaching?

Did coaching come first or did the book come first? The books, because you've written four books.

Scott Grace
00:34:52

I had a column in a magazine called Awareness magazine before I even wrote a book. And somebody in 1996 reached out to me and said do you do coaching? And I found myself saying yes.

Because I knew that I was here to be helpful and that I had innate wisdom and skills. They weren't honed, they weren't developed in traditional ways, but I trusted myself and thus my first client was born.

And then I started taking loads of trainings and workshops realizing hey, this is not just a side dish, this is where I want to go with my life.

Michael Herst
00:35:32

And that's profound actually because a lot of us go through life that sometimes we don't always know what our purpose is or what we are here for. We always, every one of us, from a child, you start wondering why am I here and what am I supposed to be doing?

As we grow older, we always can say what am I going to be? That's why we dream about what we're going to be when we grow up.

Did you ever think what would you would be at this point in your life when you were growing up and saying what do I want to be when I grow up?

Scott Grace
00:36:01

No, it was more like a fireman, an ice cream truck driver, you know, typical childhood things. No, this, this, whatever I do, it's. It was born organically and it surprised me every step of the way.

But I don't confuse my self expression, my career with purpose. I don't see the two as synonymous. And I actually have a funny story about that.

I was at a Grateful Dead concert and I was wearing hippie tie dye, walking around having a great time and it got really cold so I went to my car and put on a sweatshirt and the sweatshirt said Pine Crest School or something like that. Suddenly people were not making eye contact with me and I couldn't understand.

And so I went to this person who was selling falafel and cabbage, and I asked for a plate of cabbage for $2. He filled up my plate just with cabbage. And I said, do you have any idea why people are looking at me strangely?

And he said, yeah, you dress like a copy. I just started to walk around putting the cabbage in front of me and offering people to munch on my cabbage.

And people started to become friendly and asked, you know, And I went back to the cabbage man, two more dollars, please. And I kept going back, and I became the cabbage angel that night.

And what occurred to me, which floored me, was I was living my purpose that night, just as much as if I'm coaching somebody or, you know, on stage with my talents, that the purpose has to do with extending myself, offering love in whatever form. The Cat Stevens wrote, if I ever lose my hands, lose my plow, lose my land away I won't have to work no more. I realize I don't need a guitar.

I don't need skills. I don't need anything. I just need the willingness to open my heart to people and care about them and want to make their lives a little better.

That's my purpose. Whether it takes the form of musician, comedian, or coach, it just doesn't matter.

Michael Herst
00:38:30

Well, and that's a wonderful purpose in life. I think that, you know, we. My purpose, I thought for the longest time was to be a police officer. And that's what I did up until the time I didn't.

And at the time that I stopped doing it, it took me about six or eight months or a little bit longer to stop calling in stuff. That's my little story. I kept calling in stuff.

And then, because I got injured, and then, of course, I was forced to retire, and I would call stuff in. I call stuff in. Everywhere we went, I was calling stuff in.

Pretty soon the guys were going, sarge, you're making more arrests now than you made on a job like, go home, put your feet up, and we got this kind of thing. But I came to realize is when I thought I lost my purpose, I thought I wasn't protecting and serving.

I thought I wasn't serving the public like I wanted to serve until I came back around to what I'm doing right now. And my daughter, the one that nudged me out of my wheelchair to walk her down the aisle is the one that presented that to me.

And she said, you know, this is what she, you know, think about this. She introduced me to podcasting, said, you ever hear of this? No.

Listen, to see what you think and how you want to immerse that where you're at now that, you know, I think I really like this. And I found that I haven't stopped. My purpose. My purpose is the same as, like, what you're doing.

My purpose is to connect with people, to engage with people, and I've always done that. And it didn't change. My. Where I'm doing it from changed because I'm no longer a cop.

But at the same time, I wasn't given the opportunity as a cop to talk my podcast. I'm grateful for this podcast to be heard and viewed in 59 countries. I never would have achieved that. We're gonna beat kind of a thing, so.

But the purpose with me stayed. I still. My purpose is to motivate, inspire, motivate and educate and to entertain. That's my purpose, and I've never stopped doing that.

So I asked you that question because I think that just reaffirms to those out there that are questioning whether or not their purposes is, or if they're looking for purpose. They don't think that they've got one. Is that there is opportunity. Correct?

Scott Grace
00:40:46

Absolutely. You know, when you smile at some. At a stranger, you're living your purpose.

Michael Herst
00:40:51

Yeah.

Scott Grace
00:40:53

When you're worried about what your purpose should look like, you're off purpose because that.

That constantly worrying about whether you're doing it right or, you know, living up to these heavenly ideals of being on purpose, that is a form of narcissism. In that moment, your energy is going inside, and it's. It's not extending. And so, yeah, it's. It's a bigger.

It's a bigger picture than just what do I want to do with my life?

Michael Herst
00:41:23

I agree.

Scott Grace
00:41:24

It's a bigger picture. Yeah.

Michael Herst
00:41:25

I. You mentioned something earlier, and if I can touch back on it really quickly, we're talking about emotional awareness. How.

How does emotional awareness play in personal growth? And how can we recognize how they develop that? Because I, you know, it took me a while to. And when I say this, it's.

It may sound strange, but, you know, when you work from a law enforcement perspective.

I grew up in a dysfunctional family anyway, but when you grew up in a law enforcement environment, and that's what you are, you are not allowed to show emotion. Well, you know, you can't show fear. You can't cry. I delivered messages to people. I was with somebody when they died.

The last words out of their mouth were to me to tell their loved one that they.

That's where one more thing before ego was born, actually, last thing out of their mouth was to tell my kids I love them, tell my wife I love them, my husband, my brother, my mother, my father, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, I'm proud of you and things like this. So, you know, you're not allowed to cry with that person. You're supposed to be strong.

You're supposed to, you know what I mean, in that position. So it took me a while to really recognize my emotional aspect of life that I had tucked away from there. Yeah. So just emotional.

And it took me a while there to aware. And once I was aware of it, it allowed me to have broader conversations like I'm having right now. Do you think that plays a role?

Scott Grace
00:42:47

Yes, it's huge. It's huge. And I teach emotional intelligence to men and give them permission to begin the journey, the emotional journey of personal growth.

Not just spiritual. It's messy. It's not an area where most people are in control. You don't control your emotions, you let them flow.

Hopefully you find mature ways of expressing them or holding them inside without suppressing them, acknowledging them. But I like to just teach men there's four basic food groups when it comes to emotion. Mad, sad, glad, and scared.

I try to rhyme them to make it more fun. So that's basically it. You can boil it down to, I'm always feeling something, and it's either mad, sad, glad, or scared. And maybe a combination.

We're multi dimensional when it comes to emotions, and it's like peeling away the layers of the onion. Anger is usually the protective emotion. And then maybe underneath it, hurt, which is a form of grief, sadness, loss, then fear.

Then there's shame and guilt, and then maybe some embarrassment, and then maybe there's some love and appreciation. You peel away the layers of the onion by acknowledging, by welcoming whatever you're feeling right now. That's how to peel the onion.

I acknowledge that I'm feeling and then fill in the blank. And most people, not just men, have been taught by our culture that there is no difference between feelings and thoughts.

So most people, you know, you ask them how they feel. Well, I feel that Trump is going to do a good job. I feel like you're rejecting me right now. Those are not feelings. Those are judgments.

They're thoughts. So I teach how to look inside your body for your feelings and keep this quiet when the conversation wants to be emotional connection.

Michael Herst
00:45:02

Like I said, it's a.

It's kind of an interesting and unique way of opening ourselves up a little more Like I said, peeling the onion and opening yourself up to possibility.

And again, I think it also, I personally, I think that that also allows us to better communicate because with that communication and that understanding, it gives us the better opportunity for communication. Betcha do you think fear, you mentioned fear in what you were saying? It's a cool acronym by the way. You heard me chuckle, probably off camera.

How does fear maybe tell us some insights on fear? How does fear play into this and how do we overcome something like that?

Because I think a lot of people are just afraid and I saw this in working domestic violence for as long as I did.

Fear played a factor in that in many, many, many of those cases in regard either from one side or the other, or the fear of change or the fear of losing their. What they have or they think they have kind of a deal. So you have insights on that and maybe how to overcome some of it?

Scott Grace
00:46:17

Sure. Once upon a time when we were in the jungle, fear was basically just. It came up when we needed it. There wasn't any projection into the future.

I'm scared this might happen. It was just, oh, there's a lion. And the adrenaline would pump up and you would have the energy needed to run or fight, fight, flight or freeze.

Nowadays we are much less likely to have real threats.

We're not in the jungle anymore, but our nervous systems are still geared towards life being scary and constant high alert, terror level orange and finding things on the news to freak out about and fear of intimacy, fear of whatever. It's like we're plagued with fear. It's the human condition.

And the first step is to admit it, to note it, to recognize it, to say, ah, this is the way fear is showing up right now. Shortness of breath, worrying about the future, going through worst case scenarios in my head. So being mindful of fear is half the battle.

And there are many tools, but you can't use them until you are aware of how afraid you are. And this conversation about what to do is so nuanced and multilayered.

In one moment I might decide that the best way is to move forward to in a sense conquer fear by not letting it stop me from doing what I feel called to do. In another conversation it'd be like, you know, Scott, you, it's not worth it. You don't want to do that. Don't do it.

Let's get into bed with a good book tonight. If you spend your whole life leaving your comfort zone all the time, it's very out of balance and it's crazy There has to be a.

A balance between acting with courage and taking good care of yourself with kindness and knowing your limits and your boundaries and when you want to bust them, great. But you don't have to spend 247 busting your boundaries and limits.

Michael Herst
00:48:41

Yeah, I agree with that. I think balance is a key factor in our health and our stress and everything involved in regard to that is why we don't sleep at night. Sometimes.

This plays on our mind. Get up at 3 o'clock in the morning and think about, how am I going to fix this? How am I going to fix the world myself? How am I going to fix my life?

And so forth. And that fear of change sometimes, or that fear of the opportunity to be able to change that, or how am I going to do that?

Or coming up with a solution. There's so many, so many things that run through us.

If I can ask from a male perspective, how can men support their romantic partners and without the compulsion to. And I get accused. Accused. I am guilty of.

Scott Grace
00:49:30

Yeah, say it, say it. I'm guilty as charged.

Michael Herst
00:49:33

Say I am guilty of this. Always trying to fix it. But see, I also came from a professional or from an environment in a dysfunctional family with two alcoholic parents.

I grew up with the notion that I always had to fix something. So it. Yeah. And it stuck with me. And that's probably why I was a cop. I could fix stuff.

Scott Grace
00:49:55

Yeah.

Michael Herst
00:49:56

Which I did. I did in many, many cases. But now that I'm retired, as long as I'm. I'm still trying to fix stuff.

Scott Grace
00:50:06

Tim, you're not alone. Call me Tim, you are still not alone. Michael. You know, there's. With a romantic partner, I train myself and my clients to ask, hey, do you want Mr.

Fix it right now, or do you just want me to listen and just hear you? And once a woman or whatever says, I really just want to be heard, maybe we can brainstorm later, but right now, can you just here.

I tend to put my ears on differently. Mr. Fixit has a certain pair of ears.

Whereas, let's say just listening, where my job is to show that I'm present, to be present, and to let empathy and caring run through my body and maybe make a few sounds that express that. Like, oh, yeah, that must have been hard. It's more of an art than a science.

But the main thing I can say in this little brief time we have together is ask, ask before you just jump into fixing something. That's a great way of stopping the momentum of unconscious fixing and making it conscious.

Michael Herst
00:51:30

Brilliant. That's brilliant. Actually. Choice of words, Choice of words. That's a good choice. When did you first write your. You've written four books, correct?

Scott Grace
00:51:45

Correct.

Michael Herst
00:51:46

So the last. What made you become an author?

Scott Grace
00:51:51

I'm embarrassed to say this, but I'll say it. I had a psychic reading in Maui and one of the many things this person said to me was, of course you should get started on your book.

I had never even dreamed of writing a book. So she planted a seed and I started to journal with and underline the things that I thought other people would benefit from.

And it really took me 15 years to write my first book. I started it and I just, I needed more life experience.

It turned out to be a memoir mostly because the way that I teach best, the way that I learn best, is by hearing people's true stories.

Michael Herst
00:52:40

Yeah.

Scott Grace
00:52:41

And that's. I. I took out a lot of the self help stuff and just left it as my. My story, my journey.

Michael Herst
00:52:50

That. I mean, I think. What was the name of the first book, may I ask? I know you've got four of them. So in your. Your last one's the book about masculinity?

Scott Grace
00:52:57

Yeah. The first one is Teach Me how to Love a True Story that Touches hearts and helps with the laundry. The laundry.

Because for seven years of my life I sold these laundry bags and I learned so much about myself and I threw that in the book, chapter one. I called it the Odd Job.

Michael Herst
00:53:21

Yeah, that works. I like that. I like that. What inspired you to write the masculinity book?

Scott Grace
00:53:28

I was a student, you could say, of men's work. 1996. I did my first men's initiation weekend and it fired me up to take risks, to go for it. What are my dreams?

How can I make the world a better place? And to not let fear stop me. To not let hesitation and self doubt define my life. So I just joined these men's groups. I always.

Once a week, twice a week I would go to these groups. And I learned how men operate differently and our cultural training and what holds us back and how we can break free from our cultural conditioning.

So all of the knowledge and wisdom and life experiences that I learned from being a man in our culture, it just went into this book. It was just time.

Michael Herst
00:54:34

I believe that everything is supposed to. Everything will come at the time it's supposed to come. And I wholeheartedly believe in the universe presenting that to us.

And it'll be here when it's supposed to be here. And. And especially in this day and age.

I Think that it's a perfect time for this particular book, especially what we just spoke about earlier in this program in regard to. Times are unfortunately changing, in some cases for the worse. Tell us what Mindful Masculinity, a book for men and the women who love them.

What are some things that somebody can walk away with with that book?

Scott Grace
00:55:09

Practical tools for how to deal with Mr. Fix It. How to, how to soothe and comfort yourself when you're feeling righteous anger, when you are insisting that you're right about things.

That's a big male wound. And it, it's shame that operates in the shadowland that makes a man insist he needs to be right, to feel safe, to feel valid.

So there, a lot of the book is shame busting. And basically we all have it. And we had it in the Garden of Eden when we covered our fig leaves, you know, our genitals with fig leaves.

That was the beginning of thinking we are separate from the universe and that we deserve punishment for separating ourselves from the universe. So this is like deep, even beyond religious guilt that we're talking about.

And, and then we, we come up with this idea that we can somehow be better than nature, that we can, we can compete with God and create a world. We can cut down the rainforest and build this and do this. And we're, you know, we're seeing it fail miserably.

We're living in the end times and our evolution is being quickened and speeded up because basically right now it's evolve or perish as a species.

And the book is about, you know, taking good care of yourself, developing your left side and the right side of your brain, thinking with your heart, not just your head. People can get a lot of practical tools and inspiration and encouragement. I love the word encouragement, Michael. It means to support courage.

And so there's chapters in the book about encouraging yourself. What is encouraging self talk.

Like, what would it sound like if you spoke to yourself in the silence of your own mind in a way that made you want to do scary things and break your boundaries and go into new territory? Masculinity wants to do that. It wants to go where no man has gone before. It's pioneering energy. The masculine spirit is what put us on the moon.

And the feminine spirit, the feminine spirit said, please, let's, let's put this money into taking care of starving children, taking care of the earth. That's where we need to. And both are equally important.

Michael Herst
00:57:44

It's the yin and the yang.

Scott Grace
00:57:46

It's the yin and the yang. We want to fly to this, to Mars. And we want to take care of our beloved planet and the people on it. We can do it all.

Michael Herst
00:57:55

We can do it all.

Scott Grace
00:57:55

But we have to value both our feminine and our masculine energy.

Michael Herst
00:57:59

I agree with that. That's brilliant. I could talk to you for another hour. This hour has gone by so quickly.

Scott Grace
00:58:06

Remember, I'll come back. And second of all, I would love to end by making up a song.

Michael Herst
00:58:11

I would love you to do that. Let's do one thing real quick before we make up the song.

Tell everybody how we can get your book, all of your books and your coaching service, please, and where we can find it.

Scott Grace
00:58:20

Sure. Well, first of all, all my books are on Amazon. So you just look up Scott Grace and go to my author page and you'll see all four of them.

My website is where to learn more about my coaching and other things that I do for people. And it's scottsongs.com s c o t t s o n g s dot com and people can find me on Facebook. Scott K Grace. My middle initial K.

And I'm very prolific on YouTube. It's a lot of fun. You get to see the spiritual Dr. Seuss cut loose.

Michael Herst
00:58:55

I love it. I love it, I love it. And I'll make sure all that stuff's in the show notes too.

So it's an easy way just to click it and they'll find you from that perspective as well. This is one more thing before you go. So before we go, do you have any words of wisdom?

Scott Grace
00:59:08

One more thing before we go. Take it light and take it slow. It's built in that you're going to grow. But it doesn't come from what you know.

It comes from sinking into the flow and letting the undertow of God's beautiful ocean set you in motion to areas that are totally unknown. And you'll find yourself carrying a sense of home right into the foreign territory. Because the unknown is where there is glory.

So just begin to write your story and then it will write itself in good health.

Michael Herst
00:59:54

Brilliant words of wisdom. Thank you very much for sharing, Scott. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. It's a pleasure to meet you as an individual.

Thank you for what you bring to the world. Both joy and knowledge and wisdom and entertainment. I appreciate you very much, feel very.

Scott Grace
01:00:10

Appreciated and honored and right back at you, Michael. In fact, I want to sing a little bit about you.

Michael Herst
01:00:16

Okay, I'll take it.

Scott Grace
01:00:19

I'm going to sing about my new friend. His name is Michael Hearst. He puts his heart and energy in serving people first.

He started as a policeman walking a daily beat till an injury took him off the street. But he didn't stay feeling sorry sitting on his ass. His daughter introduced him to the wide world of podcasts and Michael found a second life.

He liked it even more. And everything is an open door. You learn from every guest. Your ministry is 59 countries blessed. It just keeps opening wider like your heart.

So glad you had the courage to press your life restart. Every day you restart.

Michael Herst
01:02:00

I am honored. You brought tears to my eyes. Thank you sir. I appreciate you very much. Thank you. And forgive my. Forgive my. Everybody.

Forgive my little emotional ending.

Scott Grace
01:02:18

Michael. People love it. They love people. We want to connect through feelings. That's how we feel connected and that's the best moments in life.

I wish we can banish apologizing for our feelings. Maybe we start apologizing for our thoughts.

Michael Herst
01:02:35

This one's great. My thought is made me feel good all the way down to my soul. So thank you very much for that. I appreciate it and for.

You're welcome everyone that's out here in the One More Thing before we Go community. Thank you for being part of our community. One more thing before you all go. Have a great day, have a great week and thank you for being here.

Thanks for listening to this episode of.

Scott Grace
01:02:55

One more Thing before you go.

Michael Herst
01:02:57

Check out our website@beforeyougopodcast.com you can find.

Scott Grace
01:03:01

Us as well as subscribe to the program and rate us on your favorite podcast listening platform.