How Fantasy Sports Captivated Millions: Insights from an Expert

Michael Herst
00:00:01

Hey, one more thing before you go. Today we're diving into the world of fantasy sports.

It's an incredible phenomenon that's an American that's as American as baseball and apple pie and has captivated millions of fans worldwide. Have you ever wondered how it all began?

What events and individuals contributed to making fantasy sports the multi billion dollar industry it is today? Stay tuned. We're going to enter answer these questions and so many more with a great guest who can give us those origins.

I'm your host, Michael Hurst. Welcome to one more thing before you go. Our guest today is Larry Schechner. He not only is a fantasy sports enthusiast, but a legend in the field.

Larry is the author of the 2014Amazon bestseller Winning Fantasy baseball and has been called one of the best fantasy baseball players in the world.

He's a two time winner of the CDM Sports national salary cap contest and has triumphed in the most prestigious expert leagues including the USA Today sponsors Labr league three times and the Tout wars experts league six times.

Known for his meticulous attention to detail, Larry's poured his expertise into researching, conducting interviews and writing the history of fantasy sports as well as the book we're going to talk about today. Welcome to the show, Larry.

Larry Schechter
00:01:34

Hi, Michael. Glad to be here.

Michael Herst
00:01:37

What an amazing opportunity for us to be able to inspire, educate and motivate some people today. I think I had mentioned before we started this is my first introduction to fantasy sports. So I'm excited for you being here.

Larry Schechter
00:01:52

Great. I will educate you.

Michael Herst
00:01:55

You know, I kind of like start at the beginning of my show. I like to get a little background on my guest, a little more in depth than what we talked about. Where'd you grow up?

Larry Schechter
00:02:05

Schenectady, N.Y. learning to read and write was a little confusing because my name is Schecter from Schenectady.

Michael Herst
00:02:15

I would imagine kindergarten and kindergarten must have been interesting.

Larry Schechter
00:02:22

Yeah, yeah.

Michael Herst
00:02:24

So would you want to be, when you grew up, did you always want to be an author? Were you always, were you involved in sports from an early age?

Larry Schechter
00:02:32

There was a time I wanted to be an author.

Like, and I think like the end of high school, first couple years of college, I had an idea for a book I thought I was going to write like the great American novel. And you know, I kind of wrote a draft and you know, now I know it sucked.

You know, it never, it never had a chance in a million years of being published. It wasn't any good. So that was like that was the end of it. So I had no Idea that years later I would be.

I would actually publish a couple of books that had to do with fantasy sports. Fantasy sports didn't even exist when I was writing, you know, the Great American Novel my first couple years of college.

Michael Herst
00:03:12

Were you, were you involved in sports as a kid or through college or in that.

Larry Schechter
00:03:17

Yeah, I played little league baseball. I was not good at it, but I, I played golf. I'm pretty good at golf. So golf, golf has been my main sport for four years.

Michael Herst
00:03:29

And you got a right place down in Florida for golfing in beautiful weather. Actually. Yeah, that's what I love about Phoenix.

Phoenix has got so many golf courses here and the opportunity to golf other than July and August, then it's just a wee bit a little hot. Don't like to golf during those time periods. Help us understand fantasy sports. How did you get involved in fantasy sports?

Larry Schechter
00:03:58

I. Well, I went to college in Boston and lived in Boston for several years after college.

And one day, approximately 1992, I was driving around Boston and I heard an ad on the radio for something that was a fantasy baseball league. It was actually a company offering fantasy baseball leagues.

So I called, I called and I was immediately interested in joining that league and played that for a couple years. They went out of business and I looked in the, I guess I looked in either the USA Today or the Sporting News or both of them.

And I found it, you know, found some other companies that offered fantasy sports and I signed up with one of those. And the story that I just told you is really, really unusual if you ask a thousand people. How did you first start playing fantasy sports?

I quite possibly would be the only one who said I heard an ad on the radio. Most people heard about it from friends or they saw an ad in the USA Today or they saw an ad in the Sporting News.

But hearing it on a radio ad is completely unusual.

Michael Herst
00:05:06

I. Yeah, my first introduction into fantasy sports was actually friends of mine and colleagues that were, that were involved in it.

So I, I didn't get involved in it in myself, but I, you know, could hear them picking their teams and picking their players and you know, that kind of a thing. So yeah, I think it's pretty, it's pretty interesting the way that it's evolved. How, how, how like what were the origins?

How did it go from where it is now and evolved into like a global entertainment powerhouse? Because it's like a multi billion dollar business now.

Larry Schechter
00:05:41

Exactly. That's why I wrote the book the History of Fantasy Sports. Because I've, you know, for, for several Years.

I look around at the industry and you've got millions and millions of people playing everything from fantasy football and fantasy baseball to fancy wakeboarding, cricket fantasy. I did a rod. I mean everything, it's worldwide. You got news Services, Stat Services, SiriusXM Radio, 24. 7 channel for fantasy sports.

When you watch an NFL game or baseball game or whatever, now they talk about fantasy statistics. So I, I wondered how did we go from ideas people had years ago for games to where we are now with this multibillion dollar industry?

And nobody's ever written a book like this. So that's, that's why I decided to write the book.

And you know, to answer your question, there were precursors to fantasy sports going back even to the 1800s.

There were the first board games where like you, you would slide a penny with your finger into a spring activated bat that would hit the penny into various holes. For baseball, let's say out home run, single, double, whatever.

And then in the 1900s there were board games like Cataco Ellis All Star Baseball and Frank Layton's football.

And then you got into games like App and Stratomatic which were based on the performance of real major league baseball players or football players, but it was their actual performance from prior seasons and what I refer to as modern fantasy sports. The difference is it's based on actual performance of athletes, but for the upcoming season.

So for example, you would draft a fancy football team in say, August before the season starts, and then you don't know what, what's going to happen. So as the season unfolds, you get the statistics of the, of your players.

Michael Herst
00:07:41

I find that fascinating actually, because it, in regard to that, obviously it gives us each an opportunity to kind of feel like we're involved in the sport. You know, we, we get to be there, so to speak. Who were some of the key figures that contributed to the early development of fantasy sports?

I mean, you talked a little bit about, about what you had just done, but who, if I may, who, who come up and said, wow, we could do this on a larger scale. We can create football teams, baseball teams, hockey. Does it, does it work with hockey and everything else like soccer?

Larry Schechter
00:08:12

Oh yeah, yeah. You said, yeah, you got, I mean you've even got like wakeboarding and cricket and, and I did a lot.

So, yeah, hockey, basketball, martial arts, curling, there's fantastic curling. I mean, there's fantasy, everything.

There's a list in my book, there's a list in my book where I wrote down like every, every type of fantasy that I came across. In my, in my research, and there's more than 50 items there, and I'm sure there were some that I hadn't even heard about. Yeah.

So to answer your question, fantasy. There's a guy named Bill Winkenbach who was a 10% owner of the, of the Oakland Raiders.

And in the late 50s, he had like a primitive fantasy baseball game and a primitive fantasy golf game.

And in 62, I think it was 62, he was on a flight with some other people associated with the Raiders, and they were going to New York to play the jets. Actually, then they were called the Titans, they became the Jets.

And on this trip he mentioned his fantasy golf and fantasy baseball games to a couple of people and they're like, we should do that for football. And they stayed up all night talking about it, developing rules, and yeah, let's, let's do this. But it was.

The season had already started, so they had to wait till next fall 63, to actually start their league. So they started their fancy football league in 63, but they kept it amongst themselves. Interesting though, one of the original players was the.

What's his name? Jerry. Jerry Wolf. That. Who.

I gotta look this up while we're talking because the name is a skeptic, but the guy who became the hall of Fame general manager for the Green Bay packers and I can't think of his first name, it's something Wolf. I'm sorry.

Michael Herst
00:10:16

That's all right.

Larry Schechter
00:10:18

Anyway, so he, he was, he was one of those. Just an aside. He was one of the first members, but they kept it amongst themselves.

But there's a guy who was in the, in the league, the original league, named Andy Musa Lemus, and he's the guy who's responsible for really spreading the game.

He owned a bar in Oakland and after a year or two in the league, he decided it would be a good idea for business to make the game available to his patrons. And he did. And people formed a league and they loved it.

The next year they had a second league and then a third league and then a women only league because there were women that wanted to play, but the men didn't want women to play in their league with them. And this is how fantasy football really spread is because Mussolini started these games in his bar. People, you know, would spread it word of mouth.

It went from Oakland to, to San Francisco. Then people would come into bar from all over the country and they'd see what they'd be like, you know, what are these people doing?

They'd find out about it before too long.

Mussolinius had people from bars, you know, bar owners from bars all over the country calling him, asking hey, what's this fantasy football thing I'm hearing about? So he was really responsible for this, starting to spread it.

And one thing about my book, when I, when I, you know, when I started to research the book, I mean first of all I had no idea what I was getting into. I thought it was something I could knock out in a few months.

It took 18 months of full time work researching, interviewing dozens and dozens of people and writing the thing. And when I started my idea was when to write a book called the History of Fantasy Sports. Find out who did what, when, how.

It all happened when I started all the research and talking to people, I started hearing fascinating stories. And I realized early on that if I just write the History of Fantasy sports, it'll get the job done.

It'll also come off as a very boring research paper. But instead of that I got all these fascinating stories I'm hearing about people. So I'm going to tell the who, what, when, but focus on the stories.

So instead of being a boring research paper, it'll be interesting. And that's what happened. I've got all these stories are fascinating, some are inspirational, some bring a tear to your eye.

There's a lot of humorous stuff. And so the reviews have been fantastic. People say it's easy to read, it's fascinating.

There's a guy, the Midwest Book Review said fascinating from start to finish and that's a guy who never played fantasy sports because the book isn't really so much about fantasy sports as the stories of these people and what they did, you know, the entrepreneurs that created this industry. So one thing about Musalimus, you know, I, I couldn't interview Mus because he's, he's no longer living.

But I tracked down one of his grandkids and got a little bit of information from, from him that hadn't been published anywhere. Because I read, you know, like I googled article after article after article about Winkenbach and MUS and the whole thing.

And I, you know, after like 20 articles about MUS, I'm reading the same stuff that I've read 20 times. But you know, once in a while there's some little tidbit that wasn't mentioned before.

So I Get like the 20th article from Musa Lemus and there's this thing mentioned. I'm like oh my God, I can't believe this wasn't Metro work. The guy was a war hero, Mussolinius when he was 17 years old.

Pearl harbor happened, and he enlisted in the army. And his recruiter told him, 97% of you are not going to return, because they were putting them on a mission to go behind enemy lines.

And they said, 97% of you are not going to return alive. But he volunteered anyway, and obviously he survived. They. They gave him a cyanide pill so if he got caught, he could kill himself.

So, you know, it's like spreading, you know, playing fancy football. Spreading fancy football was, you know, the least, you know, of the important things that he did in his life compared to that. He later got it.

His mission was top secret for years. And then after years and years, they finally made it public and he, he went to Washington and got an award.

Michael Herst
00:14:45

That's amazing.

Actually, I think that, you know, the mere fact that, that that was a minor aspect of his life, at least the way it was showcased, and it was him that kind of helped it transform into a. The niche hobby, into a kind of a mainstream sensation, which I think, you know, again, we hear about it everywhere. It's all over.

You heard on the radio, as we watch watch it. We hear about it on TV and in the news. Which brings me to.

We've mentioned this as you were talking, that it all started off pretty much word of mouth. It all started off in an arena that our friends were talking about, our colleagues were talking about it.

How has technology impacted the growth of fantasy sports over the years? How is that? I'm sure it had to have a major impact in fantasy regard to not only spreading the word, but the actual participation in. In it.

It made it easier, I'm sure.

Larry Schechter
00:15:45

Yeah. Before I, Before I get to that, let me just tell you about one other person. From your first question, by the way, I got to say something. Musa Lemus.

One more thing about Musa Lemus that I little tidbit that I read and finally read an article that was very cool, says a lot about the guy.

You know, his bar, this is back in the 60s in Oakland, his bar, and it was mentioned he was one of the very first bartenders in the Oakland area that welcomed black people. You know, that's very cool because, you know, back then, even. Even in Oakland, you had racism. So. Yeah.

Anyway, the other guy I got to mention because any. Anyone who's listening to this is somewhat familiar with fantasy sports or fantasy baseball has probably heard of Dan Okra.

Dan Okran is the guy credited with inventing fantasy baseball, which was originally called rotisserie baseball. Now, he did start a league in 1980 and he is the person primarily responsible for inventing, creating fantasy baseball.

However, there's a lot of myths out there that are not true. One one of them is that the idea magically came to him on a plane ride from Connecticut to Texas.

In fact, that was even part of a 30 for 30 ESPN special. That's not true. It goes back years before that. There's a whole long story of what happened.

There are also a lot of people who were playing kind of like their own primitive games of fantasy baseball years before that. But they were primitive games and they didn't spread. It was just friends playing with friends.

So what Oakrent came up with is his version of fantasy baseball that he invented is kind of like chess compared to everybody else who might have been playing checkers.

And the other thing about Oakrent is he was a writer and the people he got in his first league were writers, editors, magazine publishers, kind of like that. So they got publicity. There were some articles written like in the New York Times for example, they got on the Today show in 1984.

They got a book deal with Bantam Books to write a book about it. So that's how it all spread. It's because he invented a very sophisticated game and they were getting publicity. So it spread.

In fact, the 1984 book Bantam Books, they sold, I think it was about 50,000 copies. Lots and lots of people read that book and started their own leagues.

And in fact, some of the, like Matthew Barry for example, who right now is probably the most famous fantasy sports, you know, analyst or whatever you call him, he's, he's read that book when he was 14 years old and joined the league. That's how he got started fantasy sports.

Michael Herst
00:18:42

That's really interesting actually. I think that allowing them, I'm sure again technology has got to be.

Play a part in it these days where it allows us to be able to create a fantasy team so much easier and be able to share that and spread it and, and kind of bounce.

Larry Schechter
00:18:58

Yeah. So now getting to that, your question on technology. Yeah.

So the first, you know, the first back before you're back before technology and the Internet when people started playing, you know, I started playing about 1992. You know, lots of people were playing in the 80s and back then you didn't have information. You could just go on the Internet.

So people who, you know, were really taking it seriously, they, they would, you know, like, they'd go to the people, they would go to the newsstand on Sunday and buy every out of town newspaper they could find, take the sports section, throw out the rest. And they'd read the sports sections, try and get little tidbits of information about that papers, local football team or baseball team.

And if they did that, they had a big advantage over their competitors. And they also. People would call the PR offices of teams.

They'd call the Phillies front office, and they pretend they were a reporter or something and say, hey, you know, Mike Schmitz got a groin injury. How long is he gonna be out for? You know? And then at first, the PR offices would think these people were bookies.

And then later on, they realized most of them weren't bookies. They were fantasy baseball players. And it was a real pain in the ass for them. There's a guy named Bob Harris, started a company because of this.

Bob Harris got an idea for an advice newsletter for fantasy football. And he called the PR offices of the teams, and he said, listen, I know these idiots are calling you, asking these stupid questions.

Here's what I have an offer for you. Give me the information. And then everybody else who calls, tell them to call me. So they happily agreed to that.

And he started a business where, you know, he had all this information, and he started charging people to call, to call him. Yes. My book is full of stories of entrepreneurs who saw something that was needed and didn't exist.

And they started it, or maybe it existed, but they thought they could do better. Because, you know, back at the beginning, like, you know, people said, well, boy, this fancy football thing is great, but there's no information.

So let's start a magazine, you know, or let's write a book or let's start a news service or whatever. The first kind of technological breakthrough to get to your question is, was computers.

So when computers came around, there were, you know, some people realized, like, wait a minute, we could use this for fantasy sports because the. The commissioners of leagues or somebody in the league would have to do all the moves and statistics and standings by hand.

They'd have to get the box score from the paper and do everything by hand. When computers came out, people realized, like, whoa, we can use computers for this.

So instead of a commissioner taking 10 hours a week, do it all by hand. We can do it with computers. So some people became entrepreneurs and started statistics services.

One of them was a couple from Pennsylvania, Jim and Gloria Berger. And what they. They started a service for baseball and football.

And what they had to do back then for baseball is the Tuesday edition of the USA Today would have the American League statistics, and Wednesday would have the National League statistics. So Gloria would read the statistics from the USA Today. Jim would put them in the computer.

The computer would calculate all the results, and they'd mail reports to their clients on Wednesday night. So that's kind of like the, you know, I talked about, like who, what, when of the history of fantasy sports.

But then the subtitle of the book is and the stories of people who made it happen. This is where the flavor comes in.

So one, one Wednesday, Gloria went into labor with her first child, and they did not let a little thing like going into labor stop them from doing their job. So in between contractions, Gloria would read Jim the statistics, and then she'd be like, oh, wait, hold on, hold on, here comes another one.

Okay, it passed. And the contraction would pass and she'd continue. And they got their statistics done, the reports out in the mail that Wednesday night on time.

And the. The daughter that was born that day, now 37 years later, plays in the fantasy football league with her dad.

Michael Herst
00:23:31

That's dedication. Yeah, yeah, absolutely dedicated.

Larry Schechter
00:23:36

And then. And then the other big, you know, then the. The huge technological breakthrough was the Internet.

You know, with the Internet, it made it really easy for people to play, to find leagues to join. They could make their own moves online instead of having to go through the commissioner or stat service.

You could get your reports online instead of having to wait, you know, you used to have to wait to get them in the mail. Like if you were in a league, a football or baseball league, the stat week probably ended on Sunday and you wouldn't get your report.

You'd have to wait to get it in the mail. You know, Wednesday or Thursday when fax machines came out, that made it easier. Some people would fax the reports. You know, one of the.

One of the people I interviewed was the owner of a comp of a company that offered games. And he remembers the first time somebody called him and said, hey, instead of the mail, could you start sending my report by fat?

And his answer was, what's the facts?

Michael Herst
00:24:39

Oh, that's funny.

It's interesting, the evolution where, how somebody finds right place, right time, right technology, and take advantage of that, like you said earlier, from an entrepreneurial perspective, and then make life so much easier for all of us, especially within this industry. Do you think the role of media or broadcasting help to popularize it?

Larry Schechter
00:25:08

Oh, yeah, definitely. So what happened is when fantasy sports started, the media was kind of split. Like, take.

Basically, you know, half the media thought, this is terrible. This is going to ruin the game, because people are only rooting for their players. And statistics are not rooting for their teams.

And the other half of the media thought this is great.

So like, you know, Dan Oprint started his league in 1980 and I mentioned got lots of publicity, a lot of people started playing and he, he says he thinks by like 81 or 82 there was a fantasy baseball league in every major league press box. You know, the, someone in the press would start their own league, whether other people in the press.

So like you got half the people playing fancy baseball and, and you got half the people thinking this is terrible, it's going to ruin the game. And, and I think it was 80. Every, I mean every, everything in the book is factually correct. I don't remember every little detail.

So I might say something that's not quite correct, but in the book it's correct. I, I think it was 81 was when there was a major league baseball strike.

And so during the strike the baseball writers didn't have anything to write about. You know, usually they just write about the games. So some of them started writing about their own fantasy teams which again helped publicize it.

Michael Herst
00:26:38

That's interesting.

And now is there a, this can be a strange question, but is there a conflict for the actual players to be playing in a fantasy team or having a fantasy team? Sort of like Pete Rose. Pete Rose got in trouble for betting on baseball so much. Is there an issue with that? With, with the teams and the players?

Larry Schechter
00:27:02

No, no, there's no issue. You know, it's unusual for someone to have themselves on a fantasy team, but if they did, they would be, they'd be trying hard.

Yeah, I mean like thing, the thing with Rose is, you know, Rose, you know, if you're a major league baseball player betting on a game, you, you know, you could throw a game and lose intentionally or you could, you could bet on your team, but you're using inside information that people don't know about. But fantasy is different. You know, like Maurice Jones Drew, very good, well known football player.

You know, he got into fantasy pretty early on and he would, he would always draft himself. He'd always pick himself first on his team.

Michael Herst
00:27:53

That way make sure he's always picked first. I can respect that. I can respect that. How's the business of fantasy sports changed the sporting industry as a whole?

Do you think, you think it's made an impact on it?

Larry Schechter
00:28:09

Well, there's a whole fantasy, there's a whole fantasy industry. Obviously it's like a 25 billion dollar a year industry that sprung up and you know, all kinds of Related businesses.

You got statistics services, news services, advice services, companies that offer games for people to play.

And now there's, you know, there's analysts on, you know, when you watch, you know, when you turn on an NFL game or major league baseball, they talk about fantasy or they have their own fantasy shows. So, you know, like main mainstream, mainstream sports coverage now kind of includes a lot of references to fantasy or fantasy specific shows even.

Michael Herst
00:28:56

So, you know, the founders probably never would have thought in their lifetime that it would turn into a multi billion dollar industry.

Larry Schechter
00:29:04

Right. Of course, you know, the thing is they're.

When, you know, when I, when I started researching the book, I did not know the vast majority of what's in the book. And a lot of people who've played fantasy sports for years or even been in the industry for years didn't know most of what's in the book.

One thing that blew my mind, and most people hear this when I, when I, when I started researching the book, I had seen the statistic that estimates approximately 50 million people in the US play fantasy sports. And that's just adults age 18 and over. It doesn't even include under 18. And there are lots of under 18 playing fancy sports.

So, okay, so we have 50 million people in the US playing fancy sports. I knew that. What I didn't know is in India, guess how many people are playing fantasy cricket in India?

Michael Herst
00:30:06

I would say because of the population of India. It's got to be amazing. Number millions.

Larry Schechter
00:30:11

Yeah. 200 million.

Michael Herst
00:30:13

That's phenomenal.

Larry Schechter
00:30:15

Yeah. And the big, the big cricket company out there in India is worth $8 billion.

Michael Herst
00:30:22

$8 billion?

Larry Schechter
00:30:24

Yeah.

Michael Herst
00:30:25

That's phenomenal. That's crazy, right? Yeah, you know, it is.

I think from a perspective of trying to understand the comparison between the fantasy sports in, in a normal sports arena, they, the, the amount of money that's going through for both those industries is just an immense amount of money that we've invested as a society and a culture in sports alone.

Larry Schechter
00:31:00

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Michael Herst
00:31:03

That's pretty crazy. What kind of challenges do you think are controversies have, has fantasy sports faced throughout history? I mean, do you cover that in your book?

Larry Schechter
00:31:13

Yeah, yeah. The book covers really everything. It starts with the precursors of fantasy sports.

The invention spread of fantasy football, the invention spread of fantasy baseball, the first commercial games, the first magazines and books, news services, stat services, just every, you know, everything. Right through more modern times like daily fantasy sports and worldwide expansion.

And there's been a whole lot of legal issues kind of get to your question. I mean, ever since the beginning there was a question of is fantasy sports gambling? Because most, most leagues have some money involved.

You know, not necessarily a lot of money, but something. So ever since the beginning there's been a question, is it legal or is it gambling?

Even going back to Andy Musalimus in his bar, they, their, their scoring system, they, you know, if you got a touchdown or whatever they had, they, they had like, they, they called them like 10 cent leagues and 20 cent leagues where like you got 10 people in the league. So if I get a touchdown, if my guy gets a touchdown, I get, if I'm in a 10 cent league, that means I get 10 cents from the other players.

So they're the nine other teams, I get 90 cents. So that's kind of how they worked it. So there was money involved.

And what they did is instead of calling it sense, they called it points because they didn't know if one day the vice squad might come into the place and arrest everybody.

So this, this is, this is a question for years, and there were a couple of incidents in the 80s where a fireman got arrested in four Fort Lauderdale, Florida. They had a fancy league. He was arrested for gambling.

And then there was some people playing a league in a bar in Austin, Texas, got arrested for gambling.

And the question kind of lasted for years as a gambling or not finally got resolved by the federal, the federal government determined it's not gambling. And most states at this point have determined it's not gambling.

But there are a few states where they say it is gambling and you know, it's not legal to play if money's involved.

Michael Herst
00:33:29

It's kind of like. Back to that, the thing I asked earlier about Pete Rose being involved in getting busted for, for what he was doing. And, and so that clarifies that.

I appreciate that. It gives me a better understanding from, from that too. How do you see.

Larry Schechter
00:33:43

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I just say one of, you know, one of the people I interviewed, Clay Wafter, was the head of the NFL Players association for many years. And when they were considering a bill about, you know, fantasy sports being legal or not, he testified in Congress.

And you know, the, you know, some of the congressmen were concerned, well, fancy, fancy sports is legal or could, could players be bribed? You know, like, like they could be bribed to throw a game. Could they be bribed to throw a football game?

And you know, Clay Walker explained to them, you can't bribe a player to do better. Yeah, like Emmett Smith, you know, he can't bribe him to play better.

Michael Herst
00:34:35

Yeah, that's a nice way to put that. I think it's a nice analogy to put that. How do you see the future of fantasy sports evolving? Do you see it evolving any. Any more than it already has?

Larry Schechter
00:34:48

I can't really envision how, but I would say, I mean, probably just it's come so far, you know, 10 years ago or whatever, I don't think, you know, people would have envisioned daily fantasy sports. You know, 10, 10 years ago or so, daily fantasy sports didn't exist yet.

And, you know, people wouldn't have envisioned that something, you know, daily fantasy sports would come along. And now you got, you know, DraftKings and FanDuel and just. You can't watch a sports event without knowing about DraftKings and FanDuel.

Michael Herst
00:35:28

Isn't that kind of a deal? What about virtual reality or artificial intelligence?

I just had a conversation, I guess, about a week ago whether we're talking about the evolvement of VR and AI in so many, so many aspects of our life and society.

Do you think just from your experience and what you've researched, do you think that it might eventually evolve into like, the virtual reality, the Oculus, the meta, where you. They people can participate from that direction?

Larry Schechter
00:35:57

Well, I don't really know hardly anything about this, but, you know, fantasy sports is based on, you know, the activities of others. So I'm not sure how, you know, how that would work.

Michael Herst
00:36:11

It may not fit. May not fit within arena.

I mean, I just felt it was, it was a question I thought needed to be asked only because again, you know, artificial intelligence has been, you know, implementing itself in so many ways in daily life that, right, you know, we've become the Star Trek generation now where.

Larry Schechter
00:36:31

I mean, I mean, I suppose, you know, you might, you know, somebody could probably program artificial intelligence to try to help them pick like the ideal football team or, you know, or the ideal predictions of, you know, what, you know, what do you think Sh Otani is going to do in 2025?

You know, I mean, like, you can do that, you know, you know, people do that themselves, you know, try to analyze statistics and, and things like this and figure out, okay, so this year coming up, you know, you know, Shohei O'Connor gonna hit 40 home runs or 30 or 50 or whatever. So, you know, I'm sure you could program artificial intelligence to do that.

Michael Herst
00:37:12

That takes the fun out of it. I mean, really, if you. You're in it.

I'm an analytical person anyway, you know, as an investigator, an individual that spent a lifetime investigating Things and piecing together crime scenes and, you know, tracking bad guys, everything else. I love the aspect of that. Analyzing evidence and looking things in a different way. To me, it would take the.

The excitement out of it and saying, hey, I was right, or I was, you know, crap, I was wrong. Let's see what else I can do to fix that. Yeah, almost. Yeah, kind of almost cheating. Just. Just maybe on the ver.

Larry Schechter
00:37:47

Yeah. And. But, you know, I don't know if. I don't. I mean, I don't know if it would do better than, you know, a good. A good analyst, you know, I don't. But.

But I agree with. I agree with you, though. Kind of.

Michael Herst
00:38:00

I.

Larry Schechter
00:38:01

If everybody. If there was like artificial intelligence doing this and it was better than what people can do and it was available to everybody, I think.

I mean, that would kind of ruin the game. Like, if you with 12 people and everybody's using the same artificial intelligence, then you all have the same exact ideas what players to take.

I think that would kind of. They kind of ruined the game. That's like. It reminds me of playing the ever character play the game Stratego.

Michael Herst
00:38:27

I actually have it.

Larry Schechter
00:38:29

Okay. It's a. It's a board. It's a board game. And you kind of like there are two people playing, trying to like, attack each other and.

And defend against attacks. And, you know, years ago, like a long, long years and years ago, I played this with my brother.

And, you know, we played a bunch of games and it was fun, and I won some and he won some. But then my brother figured out the way to win the game is don't attack. Just hold back. Let the other guy come after you.

And he started doing this, and I didn't understand what he was doing, but after he played a few games and he beat me, those games, I realized what he was doing and why he was doing it, and it made sense. So now I realize, okay, the way to play this game is don't attack, hold back.

So now you've got two people who are not attacking, they're holding back, and there's no point in playing the game anymore. I mean, we just sit there. We just sit there for hours and do anything. So it's like, okay, we can't play this game anymore because it just got ruined.

Michael Herst
00:39:37

Yeah. So like. Like Battleship, kind of like Battleship.

That old game was a battleship where you had to guess how to sink somebody's battleship and which ones they are. Yeah, right. So, yeah, it's. It's interesting. What advice could you give to Somebody looking to get started in a fantasy sports.

And I asked this for a little selfish reason because I told you I'm really haven't gotten into it, but I know a lot of people that are. But what advice could you give to someone like me looking to get started with it?

Larry Schechter
00:40:11

Well, first of all, you know, pick a sport that you like. You know, I mean, you know, there's no, there's no reason to play a fantasy sport if you don't already like that sport. So start with that.

You know, as far as, if you just Google, there's lots, there's lots of opportunities, opportunities to play. Like if you say I want to play fantasy basketball, you know, you could google, you know, what's out there for fantasy basketball.

You know, find some kind of league that you think is interesting or, or ask friends, you know, another good way. Just, you know, ask friends. Hey, do you know anybody in a fancy basketball league that I could join?

You know, most people know people that are playing some kind of fantasy, especially fantasy football. And fantasy football is by far the most popular in the United States.

Michael Herst
00:41:01

That would be good. I, I can, I have plenty of people that are playing it, so I have plenty of resources in order to do that.

And obviously Google, I live on the computer lately, so Google seems to be a really simple way of, of at least giving myself another introduction into how to get in to it right off you jumping. Jump. Just jump into it? I guess.

Larry Schechter
00:41:26

Yeah. I mean now, you know, now we're in January, you know, baseball's the one that people could jump into.

But one thing like daily, you know, because foot, foot, I mean football just ended and basketball knock, you're already in progress. But daily fantasy sports has made it possible for people, you know, start playing even when the season's already started. Yep.

It's quite a different thing though than the season long fantasy where you've got to do a league and it lasts the entire season. That's quite a different thing than the.

Michael Herst
00:42:00

Daily games from that perspective. I, I watch a lot of soccer. I do watch a lot of soccer. I have my wife and I watch a little bit of football.

Mostly just the Broncos or the Cardinals, you know, if they're playing or if they're in the playoffs, we'll watch the playoffs and things like that. So. But yeah, I might try that with soccer. When the major seasons open up, I'll see if I'll jump into it and play a little bit.

Well, let's talk about how to get your book.

Larry Schechter
00:42:31

The book is available on most booksellers websites, Paperback and ebook. Amazon is the one that has lots and lots of reviews and details about what's in the book.

Michael Herst
00:42:47

And that's the history of fantasy sports. Again, I'll make sure that there's a link in the show notes so that the people have an easy way of going, at least to Amazon.

But you can find it everywhere. And it. Does it come in a Kindle version as well? Just a paperback or a hardback?

Larry Schechter
00:43:01

No, it's paperback and Kindle.

Michael Herst
00:43:03

Paperback and Kindle, yeah.

Larry Schechter
00:43:05

And then it's something. And most. Most booksellers have it in ebooks.

So if somebody doesn't like Kindle, they like another ebook that's probably available from that perspective.

Michael Herst
00:43:14

Well, I'll make sure that those are in the show notes and everybody can come in there. An amazing opportunity for me to learn about fantasy sports. I appreciate you coming on the show, Larry.

Larry Schechter
00:43:24

All right, thanks for having me.

Michael Herst
00:43:26

This is one more thing before you go. So do you have any words of wisdom for anybody that's wanting to jump into or is in fantasy sports at the moment?

Larry Schechter
00:43:37

Well, I just. I think if you like fantasy sports, you'll love the book. It also makes a great gift for anybody who plays fantasy sports.

You know, it's something like when people play fantasy sports, you know, a lot of us, we look for advice services that we think are helpful. If we find something we think is really helpful, we do not want to share it with our league mates. We want to keep it for ourselves.

Whereas this is a book. You can buy this as a present for all your league mates. Because it's not anything about strategy, how to win. It's just something that they will.

They will like.

Michael Herst
00:44:11

That's really good advice. Good advice. Yeah. I had informants, but I didn't share my informants, so I understand that statement.

Larry Schechter
00:44:19

Right. Wow, that's. Yeah, it's a little heavier than fantasy sports.

Michael Herst
00:44:25

Yeah. But it worked. It worked. It worked.

Larry Schechter
00:44:27

Oh, sure, of course. I mean, you know, I mean, thanks for being a police officer. You know, it's a. You're welcome, you know, great thing, you know.

You know, wildfires in California. I mean, God bless the firefighters. My God.

Michael Herst
00:44:44

Yeah, our hearts go out. We have family and friends that are affected out in California with regard to that. It's a very difficult situation for everyone involved.

And, yeah, hearts and prayers go out to. To everyone that's affected by it and to the first responders who are out there working the fires like that.

They are the police officers, firefighters, police officers, EMTs, volunteers. It's amazing. So hopefully they can get that under control pretty well pretty soon, at least. Anyway, Larry, thank you very much.

I'll make sure that the links are in the show notes, and I appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us and look forward to another conversation.

Larry Schechter
00:45:23

All right, Thanks a lot.

Michael Herst
00:45:25

For everyone else out there, please like, follow, subscribe and share. Thank you very much for being a part of One More Thing Before We Go Community and One More Thing before you all go. Have a great day.

Have a great week, and thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to this episode of.

Larry Schechter
00:45:40

One More Thing before you Go.

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