Revolutionizing Mental Health Care with Nature's Remedies

Have you ever wondered how natural compounds can enhance your mental health? Or how practical lifestyle changes can boost your emotional resilience? Stay tuned.

In this episode, we're going to answer these questions and more when we have a conversation with Dr. Andrew Hall.

He's a renowned natural products scientist with over 20 years of experience in studying naturally occurring compounds and their effects on mental health. I'm your host, Michael Hurst. Welcome to one more thing before you go. Dr. Hall's journey into this field began with a personal tragedy.

He lost his brother to depression.

This profound loss fueled his passion for understanding how natural substances can enhance your cognitive function emotional well being in the neurological health. In this episode, Dr. Hall will share his extensive knowledge on the science behind natural compounds and their impact on mental health.

Practical lifestyle changes to boost emotional resilience. I talk about that a lot on this show. Bridging traditional knowledge with modern science for holistic well being. I'm looking forward to this.

Very excited. Dr.

Hall's dedication to finding better solutions for mental health in urgent neuro degenerative issues led him founding icaro Therapeutics in 2021, focusing on evaluating naturally occurring compounds with neurological health benefits. His research, backed by FDA approval and dea, also explores the therapeutic potential of psychoactive compounds.

Join us as we delve into this fascinating world of Natural Medicine with Dr. Andrew hall and discover how integrating natural compounds into treatment protocols can revolutionize mental health care.

This is an episode you won't want to miss. Welcome to the show, sir.

Thank you for having me. Michael.

What an amazing journey that you've got within this arena. I think that you contribute something to the world that I absolutely adhere to. Love and again, excited about this conversation.

I'm excited for you having me here today.

I always like to kind of start a little bit at the beginning.

So can we talk a little bit about like how how your personal journey maybe led you to focus on the recurring compounds and how it deals with mental health?

Well, I think it really started out at my younger years where I was always wanting to be that person exploring the Amazonian rainforest and finding new and innovative drugs at an early age.

But as I developed my career, I really started looking at what areas of focus and what research was involved which led me eventually to my PhD where I actually studied naturally occurring compounds and looking at various neurological neurodegenerative diseases and what naturally occurring substances can have an effect on these systems.

That's the area of natural products chemistry, or as we call it, pharmacognosy, which is the bridge between natural compounds and actual Drug development. And ironically, what's beautiful is 68% of drugs originated from a natural source.

So seeing how you work with these compounds and how they're effective really opened my eyes to not just drug development, but really how our body is so interconnected with nature and medicine really drove my passion for Ayurvedic medicine and homeopathic medicine in general.

Yeah, that's a. I mean, there's something we all have to remember.

Our mind, our body and our soul are all connected, I think, and you know, the advantages that we have from Mother Nature to cure us and to help us to heal and so forth. I love the aspect that.

And we've researched it before, a couple shows way back when in the beginning of this, where a lot of our pharmaceuticals that we have today originated in the Amazon forest. Correct, correct.

68%, about 70% originated from a natural source.

And then the traditional pathway purifies these compounds out and then puts them through more rigid clinical trial designs and formulations development to be super potent as opposed to more holistic and even keeled more controlled. I would like to say too. Right. In the drug delivery systems.

Yeah, it's interesting because anybody that has dealt both with western medicine and eastern medicine, as well as working with naturopathic approaches, we find that traditional drugs is more, I won't say instantaneous relief, but you take Excedrin, migraine or something and you expect your pain to go away within 15, 20 minutes or so, or maybe 30, but you know, very quickly. And a lot of naturopathic medicines sometimes take a little bit longer.

But I believe that even though they take a little bit longer, they more have a more healing effect on our bodies. Can you help us out understand that?

You know, I think western medicine has come with some issues in the sense that we are predispositioned now to have instant gratification or I think mental health, cardiovascular health, diabetes, those sort of diseases that we are currently plagued with in society really do require work from an individual and implementing a lot of changes within a lifestyle, not just drugs, but diet and exercise to really combat these things to have really true sustained health benefits. So I couldn't agree with you more.

You know, this is going to be a unique conversation for me too, because I've had a lot of conversations here in regard to mental health. I've had family and friends that experience mental health. I don't like to call them issues from that perspective.

They have mental health challenges in regard to various aspects between depression, anxiety, bipolar, several of those that fall even under the umbrella of all of those, I won't list all of them off, but in. In watching the growth, that's probably the wrong statement.

In watching the uses of the pharmaceuticals that I don't want to say, in which my family members have this issue because privacy issues, but I will say in watching them deal with these issues from more of a pharmaceutical aspect, I have found that they two.

They combine two to three different drugs and then you see a multitude of side effects that come along with that, which are more detrimental at times than the original thing in the first place.

And I think that from that perspective, what are some of the most promising natural compound researches that you've shown that helps mental health benefit from natural compounds?

I think this is kind of a complex question because I think it's all tailor fitted to individuals.

And secondly, I do want to say I'm sorry to hear that, but 23.8% of our population actually suffers from mental health issues or mental health challenges. But I think it's a multitude of situations.

I think as people look at social media, people look at lifestyle medicine, the food we eat, this has really combated these issues. Our brain is so complex. These neuronal circuits are so just at its infancy of actually understanding how these neurons communicate.

Your gut brain axis, how your gut is tied to your mental health, is really at its infancy, which has caused a lot of the issues that we have at hand.

And my personal feeling, I would like to say, I always consult with a physician, is that a lot of these drugs have just targeted one specific receptor in the brain. So you hear ssri, which are serotonin reuptake inhibitors, so just really affecting the serotonin pathway.

You have dopamine pathways, you have endocannabinoid pathways, you have NMDA pathways, you have GABA pathways, which all are related to how your brain and your neuronal circuits work.

So just targeting one pathway and not realizing that all these different, all these different neurological pathways are interconnected really becomes a complex issue where the side effects are really shown.

And it is medical practice in the sense of providing this medication to see what will work and then having to move along the different routes of what's FDA approved, because those are the tools within the toolbox that are currently within, you know, a physician's. A physician's toolbox, right, to be able to prescribe these medicines.

What has been interesting and something that I've been involved with, which really originated down in the, you know, indigenous culture, is use of psychedelics, which is, for me, as a chemist, you originally think hey, these are drugs that work on a specific receptor, right?

However, this is more of a holistic path where it is challenging someone's perspective, to challenge themselves to make the changes in their lifestyle, to really improve their nutrition, improve their social connections, to be able to connect with people, think about things differently. So it's not just one medication. It's really a multitude of work that an individual needs to do to impact their lives.

For me, I actually have developed some unique, complex mixtures of botanicals, which regulates serotonin, which regulates dopamine, which regulates GABA receptors in a selective way and ratio to not cure, not try to treat these diseases, but be able to elevate the mood of individuals to actually be able to take on, take, make the changes to their lives to help improve it. So I don't think there's any one medication that can really improve mental health.

I don't think the supplements that I've developed are a cure for these things.

But I think it's one additional tool within a toolbox that can help individuals take control of their lives, think about things a little bit differently, realize that social media, all these tiktoks are not real. So people can make these changes and think about things differently to be happier and healthier.

And I think a lot of these side effects from not just these SSRIs and those, but you look at the neurotoxic effects of things like ADHD medications. So your Adderall, your Vybans, there are other alternatives to help with these things.

And there's a lot of these plants and herbs that have been used for centuries within traditional Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine that have seen effect within a traditional sense. So it's like, yeah, I find it.

Really interesting, you know, the, the. In watching friends of mine as well.

And I've also spoken with some people on this show in regard to the use of psychedelics and, and some indigenous mixtures and helping them deal with their ptsd. And, you know, they used a keyword which everybody liked, and it was to manage. It helped them to manage their PTSD because, you know, a lot of.

And some of the other mental health issues that derived from that as well. It's.

They tried to get that approved here in Arizona a couple of different times to be used in the PTSD studies and so forth, and it kept getting shot down, which I felt was unfortunate in that regard because they were showing promising, promising positive effects in regard to helping individuals suffering from this to be able to manage their PTSD as well. As the underlying issues.

What's interesting is it's actually this past summer that Maps, or what is now Lycos Pharmaceuticals, got shot down for PTSD. They had about an 80% remission rate of managing symptoms, managing symptoms of PTSD.

But what's interesting in our current western medicine landscape is the FDA regulates drugs. This is really not just a drug, but it's drugs combined with therapy.

So it's allowing people to open up their mind to really think about things differently, to manage these symptoms of ptsd, to look at those traumatic events from a different perspective. So. And the FDA doesn't regulate therapists. So that was the main issue associated with why they shut it down. And Lycos did run out of money.

But what's interesting is the va, the veterans association, due to the effectiveness of it, is actually stepping up to fund these second, second rounds of Phase 3 clinical trials to, to help manage it. Because it's an issue for a lot of people and frankly, life's tough if we don't have these tools in the toolbox.

You know, life's going to take you out if you don't have the right mental fortitude, the right situation, the right habits to really manage your life and lifestyle.

And secondly, what I do think is interesting is working with the natives and the indigenous culture down in Peru and the second oldest Ayurvedic and Ayahuasca medicine retreat, it's very much more hands on where western culture is, have people work with their feelings.

They can't be suggestive in their medication or suggestive in their talks with the individuals where people having these tough situations, they're a little bit more hands on putting people through tough introspective moments because that's what it takes. And not saying you need to be tough or be a man, I think that's the worst things anybody can say.

But working through these issues or being able to talk about it in the right way to change your mindset is the most critical thing to improve mental health.

I agree with that.

You know, and I, I've seen it in friends of mine, I've seen colleagues of mine because they, you know, as a cop or a soldier or anybody within the paramedic field and the firefighters and so forth, you're not, you keep your conditioned to, you can't cry, you can't run the other way, you can't, you have to be strong, you can't show weakness, you can't, you know, all these different aspects, but once it compounds upon each other and it continues to compound over time and anytime you're involved in any kind of a traumatic situation with regard to your personal well being, you know, it was unfortunate because you would watch those individuals go down a path that was very dark and, you know, and we lost them to the. To suicide, to the alternative, you know, route to being healed. Because of society and culture.

I won't say indoctrinating, but in society and culture, kind of conditioning people in certain aspects of their lifetime. And not just people from the public service sector, but, but individuals.

Wives, daughters, sons, brothers, you know, mothers, fathers, grandparents, you know, depending upon which era you came from. I believe that, you know, society and culture has put a stigma on mental health. And I've watched it personally, I've watched it.

My mother suffered from mental health issues, my father suffered mental health issues. But at that time period, that's something that just wasn't talked about kind of a thing.

Do you see or do you feel that approaching treatment and management of these through natural compounds, helping people to enhance their cognitive function and emotional well being has a better opportunity to kind of implement in society and culture? That's a long question, buddy. I'm sorry, I agree.

No, I mean, I really do. So, I mean, first of all, know, it's very sad to see.

And I think culture really in the past has been less susceptible for people talking about these emotions.

And I even had an uncle that was in the Vietnam War, clearly had signs now that I've gotten older, ptsd, but there were things he didn't remember until he was in his 60s. And it's crazy what your mind can do and, you know, how you have these biological and physical responses to these things.

So I think it's good that we work through these situations. People are more open about it. Be mindful of situational depression, which is just emotions, which I think I.

Everyone has a bad day versus true depression or PTSD from these truly traumatic events. Interestingly, there is a lot of research about emotional well being.

So one of my products, I don't want to say it that way, targets not just sleep, but rebalancing neurotransmitters, but it also creates a heightened state of dream awareness. More vivid dreams, which a lot of research, along with dream journaling, indicates better emotional well being.

So when you think about even psychedelics and how they're effective, your dreams are very vivid.

So having the right, you know, having the right natural compounds and the right ability to actually change the way these neurotransmitters work and how you process emotions, how you process different Information, I think is key because it's even people and young individuals that are on TikTok, I mean TikTok, Instagram.

These are all things that it's a lot of information, a lot of dopamine, a lot of thinking you didn't make it where causes a lot of mental health issues. And if you look at young individuals, depression and these symptoms are only increasing.

And I think it's because of these fake situations, these, these feelings, these, the world around us, you know, the news that's saying the world's going to end every single day, you know, that is really causing these issues. And I don't believe that anybody, one pill is going to solve it all. I don't believe that these products are right for everybody.

I believe they are targeted for a specific effect, you know, with your neurotransmitters in mind. But there's a lot of things people need to do.

Exercise is the best way to, well, cardiovascular exercise, I'd like to say in particular is the best way to do regrow brain cells and your neuroplasticity of rewiring the brain. There's also people under PTSD and depression. Your brain somewhat atrophies, so the neural networks aren't really working as smoothly.

So being able to rewire the brain, create a situation of mindfulness, I think is really key to help with all these situations.

It's not just ayurvedic herbs or medicinal plants, you know, it's the food we eat, it's the blueberries we eat, the quality of the food we eat and you know, society's grown to be processed foods, you know, a lot of caffeine. I've been subject to that throughout school my entire life and working and building various companies.

So it's been a challenge and I think when people look of, you know, traditional medicine, so working down in Peru, there's a lot more about being grounded, a lot more about being mindful, slowing down a little bit and you know, having the right sort of diet, the right sort of exercise, the right sort of mental fortitude that you're building to combat all these different stimuluses that are occurring all the time.

I agree with you. I think that it, it's, it's a lot of, dare I say, it's a lot of noise.

There's a lot of noise coming from every different direction no matter what you. And the fact, look, I love my phone, I can't say I don't is with me all the time.

But it also detriment to a certain point because it's like you, you have instantaneous news, you have instantaneous conversations, you have instantaneous, this is what's going on. And I think that being, you know, it becomes addictive to a certain perspective to keep going, oh, what's going on? What's going on?

Did I miss something? This kind of thing. So I agree with you. Sometimes we need to take a break.

Dopamine fatigue. Every time you have something your dopamine elevated.

So how do you really get back to a more homeopathic, more normalized state is really the challenge, right?

Exactly. You know, it is really, it, it's interesting because.

And then not to reiterate the what happened during COVID but I think there were some positive things that came out of the whole COVID pandemic is the fact that we had to reevaluate what's normal. Quote, I can't do quotes, but because of my hands, but normal.

And we were finding out that what we were subject to through society and culture was the norm was to get up at 4 in the morning, get ready for work, drive an hour, hour and a half into work through horrendous traffic, and then get in there, sit in a cubicle for a little while, don't converse with anybody else, just do your job and then, you know, have a 30 minute lunch you shove down your throat and then get back to work and then come home another hour, hour and a half in horrendous traffic and then maybe watch a little tv, watch a little something, go to bed, do it all over again. And we were able to take a pause with that and people working from home, making it more remote, getting a more work life balance.

I think it improved the quality of life to a great deal. It did for our own, for our own well being. My wife got to work from home for two years and then she works for the government.

But they decided that hybrid work was more product oriented, they got more productivity, allowing people to have a better work life balance. So you did a combination of a couple days at home and three days in the office.

And it really enhanced the mental well being of everyone that's working there at the present time. And it enhanced the productivity of it. But it also allowed us to sit on the back porch in the morning and watch the sun come up in 30 second commute.

And it's devastating. Every Wednesday when she's got to go to work and she gets up at 3:30 in the morning, our bodies go, I don't want this anymore kind of a thing.

So those kind of Practical lifestyle changes. I think we can implement those practical lifestyle changes. Correct. It doesn't have to be a pandemic to put us into that mode.

No. And I think it really opened up people's minds to be what's productive. Right. You know, what, what are you producing?

But it's your connections, it's not just your connections at work where I think for a lot of people you can't be as open, but you're actually able to be connected with your loved ones. There's nothing better than coming home and getting a hug from my wife and my dog. Of course I love them both.

Gotta, gotta have the dog.

Better than a dog's love, right? They, they love you for no matter, no matter what you do. But I agree. And it's the distractions at work or the, you know, I see a lot of friends.

I like to work. I mean, I love what I do. I'm passionate about studying all various forms of plants and how they work on the body.

But you know, a lot of individuals have to pretend to be working and that's not either having to think about someone working over your shoulder because it's really should be about what you're producing, how, how effective you are at your job. That should be the key to success. Right. If you're happier, you're going to work harder.

You just see that mental drain in people that are either situationally depressed, you know, lost a loved one.

People can't get work done in those situations, you know, so being, allowing people to have the right clear head and clear mind to take care of what needs to get done, I think is.

Key, very key to that. Speaking of that, I know that you know, you lost your brother, did you embark? This is, let me see if I can phrase this question correctly.

So did you, when you would you want to be when you grow up, did you want to be what you are now or did that come about in the journey? When you lost your brother, you changed.

Directly in the journey. So I've had family that have suffered from dementia, dementia, Alzheimer's.

So I did want to study natural products, chemistry, how you make drugs out of natural sources. I thought it would be cool to travel the Amazon and find the new drug.

But eventually I really did find neurological central nervous system related compounds of particular interest to me now when I did lose my brother, just seeing him struggle with depression, seeing him struggle with eventually some substance abuse issues, I thought that there was better ways to change it. You know, there's always ups and downs. I saw the pharmaceuticals, drugs, exacerbate issues like we talked about earlier.

But that really put me on a mission to find better alternatives, to try to find alternatives to alleviate and help people. And I realized through this journey that it's. It's not just taking a substance. It's not. It's not just taking a supplement.

It's not just taking a drug. It's really empowering people and educating people for the different techniques that they can use to help them with their lives.

Meditation isn't for everyone. You know, yoga is not for everyone. Running. Running is not for everyone. Walking, hopefully, is for everyone, at least to some degree.

What were you gonna say?

I said, let's hope about the walking.

Portion of it, you know, so it's.

I mean, really, it's about finding in my journey, like looking at traditional drugs and pharma to realizing it's everything that is really involved in this situation. There's some unique herbs that people use from traditional medicine.

What I think is the problem with a lot of what gives the bad connotation of dietary supplements and holistic medicine is there is a lot of snake oil out there. There's poor ingredients. There's not looking at the fact that there is standardized chemistry from these plants that have effects.

So the right formulations, the right sourcing of ingredients really dictates success in these situations. So it's been a journey.

I've been interested in it, and working with physicians, neuropharmacologists, lawyers, attorneys, doctors have really opened my eyes to, you know, really integrative medicine and then realizing there's a lot of tools in the toolbox. And traditional drug development, I think, falls short. And it's just because if you look at psychologists, right? In the United States, the average.

The average time someone spends a week with their psychologist, if they are going to a psychologist, is 29 minutes. That can't be effective. Your average time is 15 minutes with a physician. That can't be effective. You can't dump all your information on a doctor.

So they can really get a holistic view. So it's really opened my eyes towards how do you educate? How do you empower people to take control of their lives?

I agree with that. Managing it from a perspective that works for us individually as well as in. In society.

You mentioned something a couple seconds ago that triggered a question I do have. Can you help us understand the science behind how natural compounds can be integrated into the mental health protocols?

I mean, as I said, my family and my friends that are on medication, they're told to just take this Medication, this works.

And then when something stops working, which you explained earlier, when that doesn't work anymore, or if they need additional, then they add another medication, then another medication. I have one daughter that's on four different medications at the moment and she said it was okay to say it. I texted her and asked her.

She's on four different medications and each one of them have their own side effects on top of everything. So I think it would really help us to understand how the science behind the natural compound integrating into mental health kind of helps us.

So if you look at US culture versus say Germany or Holland, right. You know, if people have mild to moderate depression, they don't go straight for these drugs. They actually prescribe standardized extracts of St.

John's wort. So that's probably the oldest supplement that most people look at.

But being able to prescribe some of these compounds and how they work, you know, is, is interesting.

What they do in Europe is they actually dictate the amount of seeds, stems and leaves that can be within there the right dosing so that they have the right protocols. But the compounds within St. John's wort actually work in a similar manner.

So there is multiple compounds that have an effect because you talk about structural classes of these compounds, but they act in a way of being a serotonin reuptake inhibitor.

So helping to increase these serotonin levels with a much more subtle, subtle effect without some of, I don't want to say dangerous side effects, but exacerbated side effects. Because we can't say that they don't necessarily have some of these side effects.

You know, if we look at things like chamomile, which have something called apogenic, you know, they work on your GABA receptors. So these compounds have clinical studies, they have the research shown that they actually work on a specific pathway called GABA receptors.

You know, there's other things like valerian root, similarly, they work on, you know, your GABA receptors to be able to increase some of these neurotransmitter levels.

You also see, you know, lion's mane a lot of this research with some of the compounds and what they do with some of these standardized compounds that are present within there, they help increase bdnf, which is really the, the brain derived neurotropic protein, which actually helps regrow the brain cells and helps, I don't want to say regrows the brain cells, but helps rewire the brain to create new connections within the pathways.

So we look at a lot of these plant medicine and I can Go through a list and if you actually go to my website, www.doctorhalls I put up all the clinical data between all of the ingredients, everything related to mental health related plants that is currently out there. Not that it's totally comprehensive, but these are a lot of the compounds that are within there. But there are a lot of different mechanisms.

And even when I talk about serotonin, there's multiple serotonin pathways, dopamine, there's D1, D2 pathways. So multiple dopamine pathways. We even look at cannabis for instance, which I'm a hit or miss.

I think it's can be medicinal, I think it's overused to some degree, you know, but these things work on things like your endocannabinoid system which helps regulate your body. Even if you look at your probiotic system, the gut brain axis, so 70% of your serotonin that's produced is actually produced within your gut.

So having the right microflora within your gut can dictate these mental health issues, which is always dictated by your diet.

Not just probiotics, but there is pretty much too, too much information between lifestyle medicine and these ayurvedic herbs that really have an effect on your mental health. But I think the key is having the right amount, quality ingredients. And if you are taking these compounds for mental health, consult a physician.

But look for quality products that have the right standardized dosing of, you know, these particular compounds. And you really, no matter what you put in your body, you always should do the research yourself.

You shouldn't just trust me, you should talk to your physician, talk to other members of the community, don't use Google or ChatGPT, but look at reputable NIH articles, look at reputable nature articles to be able to come to these conclusions yourself.

So I agree with that. Make sure that you give, it's your body, so you need in you, you need to, to do the research on your own. You've done a lot of research.

How do you, how do you bridge like the traditional knowledge with modern science?

I mean you kind of spoken a little bit about it, but the more and more that I'm talking with you, I can see that you've taken like years of research, modern research as well as traditional knowledge, the indigenous, the Amazon forest. What an amazing opportunity to be able to do all that. How did you integrate all of that to come to what you have created now?

Because you've created some products in regard to helping people with their mental health from three different perspectives, perspective at present and there's more on there. Your website's amazing, by the way.

How did you bridge that traditional knowledge with modern science in order to come up with your natural compound solutions?

It's talking to a team of experts. I don't think anybody can actually know everything.

But looking at my pathway of just going through university doing program management for drugs, so looking at how traditional drugs are brought into human clinical trials, tying that to more traditional, you know, plant medicine, you know, was really how I got there.

You know, working with neuropharmacologists at the Imperial College of London, who happens to be the center for psychedelic research, we are just beginning to understand these mechanisms of what depression is, how we are addressing these situations.

But what you people don't really understand is up until recently, the only animal model, and I mean, you know, how you take one compound as a single compound and measure against depression was depression rat lever test. So they had these depressed rats which you feed them with whatever compound you want to put through a clinical trial.

And the statistical difference of a rat being depressed or not was how often they would press a lever to feed themselves.

Which is, as I'm starting to understand, and I think we are as a society, understanding depression and mental health issues are way more complex than that.

So being able to not just look at, you know, our traditional models, but looking at the, I would say the issues and the fallacies associated with some of these allowed me to communicate with indigenous individuals, communicate with the individuals that have bridged the gap for me, you know, down in Peru, which now communicate with these, you know, shaman, you know, working with gentlemen and fellow PhD graduates in China, you know, allowed me to really understand, you know, there's mixed botanical extracts, which is not your traditional drug route. The FDA does have a botanical based drug pathway guideline which only three drugs up until now I believe have been approved.

You know, it's allowed me to look at everything from a more holistic view to be able to come up, and I don't want to say play around, it is playing around a little bit of making different formulations, different iterations, putting different bioenhancers to make sure these compounds aren't broken down in your gut prior to being absorbed to allow for more effective alternatives to, you know, these treatments.

Because I think what people don't realize is drugs prior to going into humans, you know, really just go through a safety profile and some animal models to make sure that they're well characterized ingredients, they go through the right toxicity studies to make sure that they're not toxic to individuals. And then B, they have the right effect within these approved models for these different disease states.

And the difference between phase A, phase A, B, I mean, phase A, B and C, or 1, 2, 3, rather clinical trials is really, do people tolerate these drugs without toxic side effects? So that'd be a phase one clinical trial trial.

Phase two, you know, evaluates the efficacy a little more with a bigger population group with a little bit of toxicity as well.

And then phase three is really a broader group of population where you're really looking at that efficacy and the FDA is really looking for, is there a statistical difference for is it as good, if not a little bit better, you know, versus looking at these complex issues?

And for me, what really resonated working with, you know, physicians and people in the field, mental health or, you know, even focus, I would say it's not. It's not just a one, one trick pony show. It's. It's incorporating different.

A lot of different characteristics, a lot of different changes to your neurochemistry as well as your lifestyle that really has an effect or has the greatest effect on how these drugs would be. And we can't forget about placebo effect, where a lot of drugs work just because of people's perceived, perceived perception of these drugs.

So, you know, that goes to show you that, you know, your mind has a lot more effect on your body than you would even think.

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with that. I think that I had to learn that myself, actually.

I was on several drug studies conducted through a pharmaceutical company in regard to my rheumatoid arthritis, actually. So the process is that. I understand that process from within, out. And there were some drugs that they. I tried that they.

They tried them with me, and then I had such a severe reaction that they had to use another drug to take that drug out of my system. And that kind of a thing. It's a very, very complex process. For all of that.

I like the fact that I have a master's degree in interdisciplinary studies, where I was able to take several approaches to utilizing the creative arts, for example, in healing. And I appreciate the interdisciplinary or the multidisciplinary approach to solutions.

And I think that, at least from what I'm hearing, that's kind of what you did in this regard. Taking, you know, with the Amazon and Peru and with. With the physicians and the psychologists and everybody that you've. You.

You have research brought together and work with, it gave you, I think, a more diverse explanation or integration of what you brought to your company. You know, ICARO Therapeutics for developing the products that you've developed.

Do you think the Amazon or Amazonian farmers had a major impact on, on part of this process for you?

It changed a lot of my perspective on how they utilize these plants. I think it's this whole mystical, you know, theory. I think it's more hands on and they call them master plants.

So what, what really blew my mind is going through, I would say one of the toxic, most toxic or poisonous, you know, environments out there. But they live in harmony with the plants, they struggle through it. But it really taught me that it's not just these plants.

It's about practices, it's about, you know, pulling together all these multitude of plants to lifestyle, to preparation, mentally. That really dictates the healthiness and the way they survive. And what really did blow my mind is how young everyone looks in this toxic environment.

And by toxic, I mean you're with poisonous steaks, you have jaguars, you're waking up with tarantulas near you, but you're living in harmony, which really did, really did, you know, blow my mind.

And seeing, seeing the psychedelic movement, which I'd like to say it's a cautionary tale, you know, it's not, it's not a cure all and be all where you see a lot of individuals in the United States now. Oh, it cures ptsd, it's, it's curing depression.

No, it's, it's one tool in the toolbox where these things are to open people's minds, to make the changes, to eat healthier, to, you know, work a little harder for their life, to change these things. And even when you look at, you know, your first, you know, breast cancer medication, you know, Taxol, it came from a yew tree. These, it's.

How do you integrate these things into society properly and safely, you know, is really key because I think people think of plants as, oh, they're just healthy, but they can be toxic. So it's about having these plants in the right dosing and the right, you know, delivery method is key.

You know, so it's been opening my mind towards how they use it.

But how do you get, you know, traditional Western culture to adopt some of these things and provide this to people in the right way that they can trust it. I think, you know, plants have been shunned.

But I do believe we're in a movement where people want more holistic medication and specifically mental health. I'm glad we've made a lot of movement to destigmatizing mental health. But People don't want to be labeled on these medications.

People are more open to it, but it's nothing to be ashamed of because sometimes everybody goes through a rough patch in life. So how do you give people that umph.

To really bring them to the next level, to really empower themselves and give them the tools to overcome these challenges? So I might have talked a little too much there, but.

Yeah, it makes a lot. I mean, it makes a lot of sense. I think that it's been a journey because when you watch a.

You know, again, as I told you, when I grew up, my parents both had mental health challenges, but I didn't realize and recognize them until way later in my own life. I did not recognize them until now.

Once I got into law enforcement, I started dealing with individuals that had bipolar, for example, or schizophrenia and, you know, several other mental health challenges that in depression because I had to talk people out of suicide and so forth, because they reached a point in their life where they just didn't, you know, didn't want to live. And you had to try to overcome that with conversation to get them into help.

I was able to kind of slowly and eventually understand the challenges that my parents went through because again, it's not something that you spoke about. They made a joke about, go take your Valium, go take your Valium, go take your Valium or she's on Valium or that kind of a thing. So I agree with you.

I think that it needs to be talked about a little bit more.

I appreciate the fact, because I have family members and friends that are on medications at the moment that we have approaches that we can go to in more of a holistic approach for this management of any kind of mental health issues that we've got. And so, no, you didn't talk too long. I probably talked too long. No, it's one of those things where you kind of go, wait a minute.

I got so much more to say. The, you know, the.

I know that you spoke about getting FDA approved, and I know you had DEA back in for some of your research on the natural compounds. Was it. Was it challenging or difficult from a naturopathic perspective? Is it different? Do they.

Is it harder for you to get a natural product approved by the FDA than. Than, let's say, a more normal drug?

No, I think that's the common misconception. I think the key to get a natural product approved is having the right standardized extract. You got to look at how these things are manufactured.

How do you qualify these extract? Is it a compound that's perfect that you're representing as the biologically active compound. Is it a biological activity?

Meaning are you measuring these extracts from say a cell based assay or an animal assay to show the effectiveness. So it's all about standardizing your inputs, which is what regular pharmaceuticals do.

The challenge I would say would be your supply chain because how do you actually cultivate some of these things?

But if we look at some of the opiate crisis, you know, thebain, which is the main ingredient, what makes oxycontin through a semi synthetic pathway after it's coming from thebane is just the rationale behind what you use. So in the case of Taxol, which originated from a plant originally, they wound up going through a semi synthetic route.

So they, because they can't harvest it in enough quantities from the yew tree itself, they actually wind up growing the plant, extracting out some of the raw material and then kind of processing it further.

So, you know, I think the challenge is having the right team in place, having the right knowledge of how these things work and then writing the paperwork. So the DEA license was writing the right protocols for what I wanted to study.

I was getting approval for psychedelics as well and then looking what's within the guidelines. How you go about it is really key. So it's about having the right team, having.

I'd like to thank, you know, the FDA attorneys, some of the patent attorneys that I had guiding me along this process where, you know, it's a lot of writing, but it's a lot of, you know, due diligence of doing the right thing. And my communications with the DEA have only been lovely. And I honestly want to say it's been lovely. They've been very communicative.

The fda, same thing. They, they want to study these things, they want to move these things forward, but they want it done in the right pathway.

So there are different meetings you can put up. I've never had an issue setting up these meetings. Your first meeting's free with the fda.

The DEA was more responsive than I would have even thought of. And you're talking about controlled substances to make sure you had everything in place.

So I think there's a big misconception that it's big pharma, you know, the DEA is out to get you. No, they just want to. It's the Drug Enforcement Administration, which is diversion. So they want to prevent harmful substances from entering society.

So it's. I've only had good interactions, to be honest. So I, I wouldn't say it's a Challenge.

It's just about trying to do the right thing and communicating to the right people so that you do the right.

Thing, which is a positive thing. You know, my interactions with the DEA was on a completely different scope, which I also enjoyed. So it. It's all good.

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, right? Your interactions where people.

People manufacturing and distributing these controlled substances in an uncontrolled way that could be. Potentially do harm is what I'm.

Exactly. Yeah. It was a. It was a little different scenario. Just. Just a little.

Yeah.

How do you see the future of natural medicine evolving in the context of mental health and neural neurodegenerative? I really want to touch on that.

Neurodegenerative disease.

Yeah. Because my. My wife's father, he died of Lewy Body Dementia, and we. We took care of him the last 18 months of his life. And.

And that would be considered a neuro. Yeah, yeah. Tongue tied. Yeah, I'm educated. Neurodegenerative disease, wouldn't it?

Yeah. You have things like Parkinson's, right? Parkinson's disease, which is, you know, decreased transmission of dopamine levels. So there's.

There's other things at play.

You talk about Alzheimer's, where there's this whole amyloid plaque pathway, which it's all related to oxidative stress, you know, and neurodegenerate neurodegeneration. So I do believe that there are lifestyle changes, and I would like to say always consult with your physician again.

But, you know, these natural compounds have been shown, including lifestyle changes, diet changes, to really slow the progression of these neurodegenerative diseases. There's a recent study out of Harvard saying that they were able to, you know, undo the symptoms of dementia. So I do believe it's a homeopathic.

The homeopathic alternative will only exacerbate whatever cutting edge pharmaceuticals that are coming out there, not exacerbate, but increase the efficacy of these pharmaceutical drugs as long as they're studied and the physician says there's no drug interactions. I'd like to, you know, say that, but, you know, I do think the way society has gone, we talk about lifespan versus longevity. Right?

So how long we live versus quality of life. We are pushing the limits. I mean, we used to die in the medieval ages by the age of 30. Right. You know, we're now, we're pushing 90 to 100 years old.

So I think, you know, being able to add a healthier lifestyle helps solve some of these food store issues, meaning eliminating some of the processed food, some of These phytoestrogens, you know, these hormonal imbalances that occur with some of these preservatives, as well as enriching the foods to have some of these antioxidants, you know, will really be helpful. And if you look at 90% of diseases, including cancer, they're all oxidative, stress and inflammation related.

So it's all about inflammation and then downstream deregulation of, you know, our body's homeostasis.

So having the right foods, having the right medications, and having homeopathic alternatives to get things realigned once they're getting out of whack, I think is going to be key. But I don't think it's just, it's the only solution. I believe pharmaceuticals are needed, I believe western medicine is needed.

So it's, it's about finding a balance, communicating with the physicians, finding additional physicians if you don't like the one you got. Not stopping there, not trying to doctor shop.

But no, no, I agree with that.

If you don't find the right doctor that you can work with that listens to you, that actually takes the time to listen to you or take the time to figure something out with you, then you should find the doctor that will.

Absolutely. That's. I thank you for saying that because I didn't want to make it say doctor shop or find a pill. Right.

It's about really taking control of your life and, you know, finding the right solution for you. Because supplements, medicine, they all work differently. Food works differently.

Some people are lactose intolerant, you know, some people are allergic to soy. So it's finding how your body works and really finding out what works for you.

But I think, you know, we have nutrigenomics, so being able to do genetic testing on how you process nutrients, you know, your allergy testing, you know, people, the whole celiac disease, where really it's a lot of, you know, gluten might have been one of the things people are allergic to, but there are a lot of other ingredients that people were probably allergic to and not gluten.

So.

So I think it's about not stopping, pushing the barrier.

And with modern medicine, things are getting cheaper and cheaper and cheaper as far as being able to take some of this personalized medicine at a affordable end quotes, you know, way.

I agree with that. What kind of advice would you give to someone who's interested in exploring these natural compounds as part of their health?

Your treatment plan or management plan?

Finding the right physician.

And it's, and it's not, I mean, I'm available to talk, but I really recommend always talking to your physician, you know, understanding what is going on in your life and then, you know, reaching out to the community. So there are, there are a lot of X, there's some, some weird experts, but there are some good experts.

But it's about doing the research for yourself, reaching out to individuals, talking to your physicians, finding alternative physicians to really find out what works for you. I think life's tough, like I mentioned in the beginning of the podcast, you know, so really evaluating what's going on for you personally.

You know, I'd say start with some walking, you know, maybe try some meditation, turn off the news at 7:00 because it just seems to be just death after whatever it is.

These small changes might be more impactful than just taking a dietary supplement or herb, but you know, but being able to be open minded, contacting individuals, talking to your physician network, talking to a nutritionist is really the key and it's not listening to just one individual, but it's look, looking at what's going on with yourself and finding the information for yourself.

Communication, kind of, everything you just said boils down to communication. Communicate with yourself and communicate with those around you and your doctors to find a solution. I think that's brilliant.

It doesn't hurt. I've never had anybody call me stupid for asking a question, you know, but it's always about, well, maybe someone, but.

You know, those are the ones you escort out the room, say, thank you very much, have a nice day. I appreciate you being here.

I don't need your advice. Right, but it's, it's about asking questions to find out what's right for you. And we're too individualized to have one answer.

Exactly, exactly. Well, you have some solutions for people. Let's talk about that a little bit and how to get a hold of you and where to find your solutions, please.

Perfect.

So, so I've been working obviously through ayurvedic medicine, looking at various neurotransmitters and I think sleep has a big, big role in both ADHD and I think it has a big role within depression.

So if you look at a lot of the studies, having the right sleep schedule, the right time is related to, you know, your mental focus, your mental fortitude as well as your emotional balance.

What you do see in some of the clinical research, and you can find this on the website at www.drhalls.com is there is a lot of clinical research about dream states, your ability to process dreams. Remember Dreams has a big effect on your emotional stability.

So I have one product named Mind Restore, which is a restorative nighttime supplement which has, I don't want to say sedative, but it has things like chamomile valerian root, which are more sedative, along with a list of other ayurvedic herbs, all transparent, all dosing on the website, which have various effects on the neurological pathways there. What's unique about this product is that it creates that heightened dream state when you're sleeping, so you have a restful night's sleep.

Unlike melatonin, you won't be waking up as groggy, but you'll remember your dreams.

So being able to incorporate dream journaling into this, if you do have those heightened dreams, will hopefully create a better emotional state for an individual. Now another product that I've seen have is Mindset. Similarly, they can be taken in conjunction.

Everything's been dosed to the safe recommended approval approved levels by the FDA within GRAs and some of the dietary supplement laws. Similarly affects your dopamine levels, your serotonin levels, as well as your GABA and NMDA pathways.

Unlike targeting with the nighttime more gaba, it's tightening some of your dopamine and your serotonin to help elevate your mood, you know, and higher dopamine levels actually does increase focus. So these are tied to help heighten your emotional state, which I'm not saying it's a cure for depression, it's not a cure for depression.

But the goal is to elevate your mood so you have another tool in the toolbox to help take control of your life. The better mood you are, the more likely you are to go to the gym, the more likely you are to socialize, play tennis, play racquetball, play Batman.

I'm just saying the ball sports or even play golf. And another product, you know, it's.

I've seen a lot of issues from addiction just through friends with Adderall, some of these amphetamines that are prescribed for adhd. So similarly, it's a natural alternative to, I would say it's not treating adhd, but will help people to focus in a similar matter.

And mechanistically speaking, based on those ingredients.

Brilliant opportunities for us to be able to take a naturopathic approach to our mental health and well being.

Everything that you mentioned, between being more social, getting more active, eating right, putting the right things into our body, and being able to communicate what we need to communicate within ourselves to get, get the solutions that we need to, to for us to improve our quality of life. So that's a. Yeah, it's been a brilliant conversation. This time went by too fast.

I agree. It's been great talking to you.

So yeah, you'll have to, you'll have to come back as we do, we could, we can continue down the road. So I will make sure that everything is in the show notes so that it's an easy way to click and follow and you know, get your website.

And again, a brilliant website for everybody that's out there when you do visit this explore it, please. He's got a wonderful blog. He's got a whole bunch of educational and inspirational articles in there you can read as well.

Everything he talks about with the breakdown of all the herbs and what they do and how they affect you, I think are another amazing opportunity for you to learn and understand how putting those into your body help you a little bit better. So I'll make sure all that's available for everybody and you can be found on Instagram too, correct?

Yep. Dr. All's health. So I'm just starting following but I will be putting out educational content but always do the research for yourself.

I'd like to just, you know, always want to empower people to do, do that for themselves.

So that's a great deal. This is one more thing before you go. So I always ask you have any words of wisdom before we leave?

I hope everyone has a great day.

I hope everyone feels happy and I hope, you know, everyone learned something and I'm always available to reach out and I hope hope everyone just has a good life and has the tools they need to survive. So I appreciate you having me.

Brilliant, brilliant words of wisdom. Thank you very much for all of that. It's been a wonderful conversation. Thank you for being here.

I think that we did maybe inspire, motivate and educate some people today.

Thank you for having me.

For everyone else out there, please, thank you very much for being part of the One More Thing before you Go community. I appreciate you very much. Subscribe, follow and you know, check us out each week. Again, Dr. Hall, thank you very much for being here for everyone.

I have one more thing before you all go. Have a great day. Have a great week and thank you for being here. Thanks for listening to this episode of One more Thing before you go.

Check out our website at beforeyougopodcast. Com. You can find us as well as subscribe to the program and rate us on your favorite podcast listening platform.